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How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

mattdeboard.net

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Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#101

Post by gradstudent »

[deleted] wrote: post #97
kunley wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He hasn't made any hard choices, he just picked what is most available and put the pieces together. Frankly he'd have bought me if he made his hands dirty with some obscure 8bit assembler. There he'd have to really THINK his way out. At least some sweat during rolling his own data structures and algos around them would make him something in a shape of a programmer, but not this. Of course what he's done is cool, lear…

[deleted]

Are you confusing Hacker News with Reddit? (for context, below is mattdeboard's deleted comment)

"Well, thankfully, I didn't write this for you. I wrote it for the people -- I suspect the vast, vast, vast majority of the HN readership -- who are not expert programmers, or even professional programmers, but they want to be."

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#102

Post by kamaal »

prophetjohn wrote: post #92
kamaal wrote: post #86

You can certainly be a programmer in 12 weeks, but you will be different programmer than what we are expecting here. You can also learn programming by reading 'Learn programming in 30 days'. But that is a very different kind of programming than what most people are expecting in this thread. You can learn enough programming to begin to understand how to work with software. It gives you a start. It also works if your j…

I get the point of this post, even if it seems a bit of a tangent from the what the author is saying, but >>in case you think you have spent 10 years learning all the secret recipes in computer science books but are not good in other areas. You are no better than the 'Learn programming in 30 days guy'. and >>Your regular data structure and algorithm sauce is probably 1% of what is required is just false. Sure, studyi…

>>but your comment largely renders advanced degrees, like PhDs, about as useful as some poorly written Java book with regard to success as a software engineer.

I am not saying that at all. All I'm saying is, as programmers we tend to assume knowledge of text books and programming is all that is needed to win. And that if you have it, that is all there is that it takes to win.

This is largely untrue. I have seen that this is hardly what it takes.

It's important to learn the fundamental and concepts, but if you are bad at everything else. In the the practical scenario you and the 12 weeks programming guy will both sail in the same boat. You will be bad at one set of things, and he will be bad at the other.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#103

Post by mattdeboard »

viscanti wrote: post #79
spacemanaki wrote: post #78

The amount of negativity in this thread is depressing. I think a lot of people either didn't read the article or just skimmed it. For those of you who are citing Peter Norvig's essay, I also thought of the essay when I read this; it's one of my favorites. I've read it several times because it is humbling and inspires me to rise to the challenge of really becoming a great programmer. If Matt reads it he might feel sim…

My biggest problem with the article is that it's essentially a puff piece about how awesome the writer thinks he is, and how special he is for being able to learn the basics in a short amount of time. The post is entirely too hand-wavy about actual details; telling someone to read some blogs, Q&A sites and code doesn't help anyone. Where is the substance? Were there any interesting ah-ha moments? What would he do dif…

>Were there any interesting ah-ha moments?

Yes, all of them. I have them every day. Today's was Solr's facet.limit/.prefix/.mincount methods as it relates to what I'm working on. Nothing stands out because it was a huge bolus of information.

>What would he do differently?

Nothing.

>What guidelines would he give to someone else in a similar position?

http://mattdeboard.net/2011/11/23/how-i-became-a-programmer/

>How did he find an appropriate mentor?

I was lucky. I answered this both in the comments and in this thread.

>What was he surprised to learn?

The level of apathy among a lot of programmers.

>What can he do now that he couldn't do when he started?

I can program now, so there's that.

You think it's hand-wavy because you think I'm holding something back. I busted my ass dude, I worked very hard. That's not hand-wavy, that's just really what happened. I taught myself a lot of shit by reading, asking questions and trying new stuff. There's no mystery or secret sauce.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#104

Post by Volpe »

kunley wrote: post #90
Volpe wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a grad student has those things ( ;) ), but once you realise computers aren't the hard part about building software, you realise that there are a whole host of skills you need to be a successful programmer, that have nothing to do with algorithms or computation. If all you have is a strong understanding of algorithms and computation... your just a computer geek. Doesn't make you a good 'programmer' (in the sens…

What a ridiculous point. If you don't have such understanding, you're just copypasting someone else's instructions.

You are misinterpreting what I'm saying. Read it with a little less cynicism.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#105

Post by gradstudent »

Volpe wrote: post #84
gradstudent wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A programmer is language agnostic and has a deep understanding of both algorithms and computation. I find the term para-programmer to be an apt description of anyone else. Why is this on the front page btw? Aren't we all hackers here? What makes this news?

Maybe a grad student has those things ( ;) ), but once you realise computers aren't the hard part about building software, you realise that there are a whole host of skills you need to be a successful programmer, that have nothing to do with algorithms or computation. If all you have is a strong understanding of algorithms and computation... your just a computer geek. Doesn't make you a good 'programmer' (in the sens…

Huh? A good "programmer" is a good problem solver. You can't be a good problem solver if you don't have a conceptual understanding of algorithms or have any notion of what it means for a problem to be "hard".

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#106

Post by [deleted] »

Volpe wrote: post #84
gradstudent wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A programmer is language agnostic and has a deep understanding of both algorithms and computation. I find the term para-programmer to be an apt description of anyone else. Why is this on the front page btw? Aren't we all hackers here? What makes this news?

Maybe a grad student has those things ( ;) ), but once you realise computers aren't the hard part about building software, you realise that there are a whole host of skills you need to be a successful programmer, that have nothing to do with algorithms or computation. If all you have is a strong understanding of algorithms and computation... your just a computer geek. Doesn't make you a good 'programmer' (in the sens…

[deleted]

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#107

Post by cantbecool »

vkatluri wrote: post #80
mattdeboard wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very surprised confused and disappointed at the parochialism here.

It's probably because you scare them. Here are people who have spent several years in school to gain a certificate that shows they know how to program. You may never be a competition to them in the job market but the knowledge that someone spent close to 12 weeks (not even a semester) and was able to land a basic job programming is probably rubbing their sense of entitlement the wrong way. Me personally, I have a M.S…

I share your sentiment. It's disrupting their entire way of thinking regarding the programming field.

It would be amazing to get to the level of programming enlightenment to be able to create a compiler or kernel, though. That's a goal of mine with-in a decade.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#108

Post by crikli »

I can play a few Megadeth riffs and I've written two very shitty songs. This does not make me a musician or a songwriter. It makes me a dude who can create noises that resemble music.

The OP groks the basics and has learned how to use Django. This does not make him a programmer. It makes him a dude who can create code that resembles a program.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#109

Post by Volpe »

gradstudent wrote: post #105
Volpe wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a grad student has those things ( ;) ), but once you realise computers aren't the hard part about building software, you realise that there are a whole host of skills you need to be a successful programmer, that have nothing to do with algorithms or computation. If all you have is a strong understanding of algorithms and computation... your just a computer geek. Doesn't make you a good 'programmer' (in the sens…

Huh? A good "programmer" is a good problem solver. You can't be a good problem solver if you don't have a conceptual understanding of algorithms or have any notion of what it means for a problem to be "hard".

Why do you need algorithms to be a good problem solver? Must of sucked to solve problems before the 60s given there were no good problem solvers :(

In fact, how did mathematics and physics even develop at all before then, without knowing what was hard, or how to solve problems.

Seriously, a lot of software doesn't require complex algorithms, sure there is a subset that does and that's cool. But saying someone isn't a programmer because they don't have a deep understanding of computation and algorithms is disregarding a large population of quality programmers.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#110

Post by hfthrowaway »

I'll share my story here. I graduated with a non-CS degree and zero programming experience. It took me about 3 months to land my first programming gig (freelance), then an internship a few months later, and now I'm a junior developer at a great hedge fund.

I'll point out that I optimized for getting a full-time job as fast as I could. I have college loans to pay off, so I couldn't afford to spend months learning CS thoroughly. I learned enough to get past interviews, and focused the rest of my time on other high ROI things like networking/coding projects. Critically, I now have the luxury of having an income, and have both my day job and side projects to fuel my learning of the finer details.

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