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Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

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Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

#1
Over the last few days, there's been a lot of discussion about kiwifarms being taken offline by Cloudflare. As is expected from HN, the average response was one appalled by the apparent free speech violation, and a general concern for the precedent being set.

While I understand the sentiment, and have thought the same in the past ( with Aaron Swartz or Chelsea Manning); I want to pose an alternative question: What's the precedence set by continuing to do business with kiwifarms?

Over the last few days there's been a lot I've wanted to say, but I felt like I couldn't speak. I've been on HN for the better part of a decade, but I can't say anything as myself. Instead I need to use a throwaway account and only connect over a VPN, because I'm a trans woman talking about kiwifarms.

I've seen how dangerous it can be for a trans woman to stick her head up. I've watched friends and strangers alike be harassed, attacked, SWAT'd, and doxxed. Not public figures (though they don't deserve death threats either), just regular trans people trying to live their lives and speak their experiences.

I no longer feel like I can speak up, for fear of illegal reprisals. Why should they be allowed to infringe on my rights? Why should I have to hide?

Cloudflair's decision to stop doing business with kiwifarms is a step towards free speech, not away.

Re: Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

#5
Incitement is already illegal. SWATing and making true threats are also illegal. What we need is not nuking entire websites from orbit because they have bad actors, but actually upholding the law via law enforcement. Private corporations should not be the arbiters of online speech.

Freedom of speech is also our freedom to read or freedom to hear. When tech giants delete entire websites from the internet, we've all lost our ability to choose for ourselves what we'd like to read or hear.

Re: Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

#6
Definitely a shocking amount of support for what appears to be a cesspool of bigotry. Sorry, you dont feel welcome anymore. This site has had an unfortunate devolution in this regard since around the time Trump got elected, and certainly by the time Jan. 6 happened.

Re: Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

#7
> I no longer feel like I can speak up, for fear of illegal reprisals. Why should they be allowed to infringe on my rights?

They aren’t allowed to do this hence the illegal qualifier.

The problem is they can also use the same means that allow you to post this anonymously to harass people anonymously. If you take this away from them you also lose the ability (which would never happen because you’re one of the good ones). Until someone decides you aren’t one of the good ones.

Re: Tell HN: Sites like Kiwifarms are destroying free speech

#10
I agree with you.

Cloudflare is an independent entity and is within its rights to refuse service for businesses that are unsavory (including kiwifarms due to supporting harassment, propagandists, illegal substances, or whatever it chooses).

I am surprised radicalized keyboard warriors on the internet feel better about the situation and their lives when they harass, SWAT, and dox others. I am sorry you've experienced this and live in fear of it. It seems out of sync with of principles they tend to mutually adopt from Jordan Peterson and similar. That said, those tend to be a bit of a philosophical mess anyhow.

Maybe it's a little thing, but I hope knowing some random other person on the internet agrees with you, and who doesn't run in the same circles, brings some comfort to you. I applaud you for navigating your identity and looking to live your life to be the best you. It shouldn't have to be in fear. Good luck out there.

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