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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#801

Post by jbuhbjlnjbn »

bioemerl wrote: post #468
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s cross that bridge if it happens.

At that point it will be too late. Censorship like this creeps on forward until everyone is scared to speak up against it and then it clamps down hard enough that no one is able to speak up against it.

History has told that lesson a thousand times. Still, there are ever new people that seemingly lack the capacity to recognize the lesson (my guess is, the minority), or, for arguments sake, chose to ignore it (my guess, the majority).

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#802

Post by worried4future »

fullstop wrote: post #668
nemo44x wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should the Washington Post be banned? Or should their journalist, Taylor Lorenz be banned from Twitter for doxxing the Libs of TikTok person? We should be consistent and non-arbitrary. There’s so many more examples.

She should be reprimanded, in my opinion. The Washington Post is not encouraging their readers to harass or doxx individuals or groups, so this is a false equivalency. How would you feel if someone made a "Finding Nemo" forum in which they tracked down your identity, your family, and your friends and encouraged its members to harass and doxx you and your family? Oh, and this forum hid their identity behind Cloudflare…

> The Washington Post is not encouraging their readers to harass or doxx individuals or groups

Publishing libsoftiktok's information was definitely intended to harass them, and implicit support for doxxing.

> Would you support Cloudflare banning said forum?

No.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#803

Post by foldr »

tsimionescu wrote: post #698
ajross wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe kiwifarms is all people say they are "All people say they are" is a site running coordinated harassment campaigns, including SWATing and bomb threats, though. Those are clear crimes. You can't seriously be arguing that CloudFlare or DDos-Guard or whoever shouldn't be allowed to choose not to do business with that sort of thing, can you? Like so many others here[1], your perception thing seems to be based sole…

I have only seen a handful of anti-trans sentiments here, and those were quickly downvoted, flagged, and eventually deleted. Care to link to one live example in this thread?

I suspect linking is against site guidelines, but if you search for 'degenerate' you will find at least one example of a trans person being called such in an unflagged comment.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#804

Post by cowtools »

redeeman wrote: post #636
cowtools wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "go into hiding" means "not posting personally-identifiable information on the public internet", then that doesn't sound so bad. In fact, that's what I always do all the time on the internet, as should everyone.

by "go into hiding" i mean leaving their house, living in a new undisclosed location, as people are coming to their house

This is why it's unwise to ever post one's location online.

It is truly pitiful, because this is ultimately what social media encourages. They encourage tagging posts by location, they rip the EXIF data from the images (which most users don't even know exists in the first place). This is all information that is fed into the advertising and mass surveillance machine.

At the very least, this is what we have castle doctrine and self-defense law for.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#805

Post by Volundr »

cowtools wrote: post #757
bastardoperator wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first amendment is designed to protect people from government. That's it. It's beyond clear in its text. Courts have ruled time and time again finding speech that harms people is most certainly not protected. We have laws that deal with slander, libel, harassment, and speech that does not pass the clear and present danger clause does meet the criteria for "free" speech. I don't understand how anyone can look at t…

I believe that free speech, as a doctrine, is an intrinsic good. It is that simple. I think the late Aaron Swartz describes my stance on free speech as a doctrine and moral principle: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/becausewecan The status of the law has no influence on my stance on morality. Legality neither sufficient nor necessary for morality. The existence of slavery was once legal, was that sufficient to make it…

People have the freedom to say awful things. That's part of free speech. But shunning then for saying these awful things is also part of my free speech. Calling on others to shun them for saying these awful things is also part of my free speech. You cannot have free speech without also allowing people to be ostracized (even in organized campaigns) for how they use it.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#806

Post by cowtools »

elcamino44 wrote: post #784

I think it’s interesting that so many people see the danger in a Twitter “mob” effectively running Kiwifarms off the public, visible internet, without recognising that Kiwifarms themselves were a mob, with the precise goal of running people (including the recently targeted streamer) off the public visible internet too. The tactics were different, but the goal is effectively the same. The key differences are Kiwifarms…

I don't think the goal of KF is to de-platform individuals, but merely to discredit them by publishing demeaning information and rumors about them. So they are categorically different: one side is pro-free-speech, and the other side is pro-censorship.

"Doxxing" doesn't restrict someone else's free speech. It just discourages them from conducting speech under their public identity.

If you ask me, what they ought to do is "counter-dox" the KiwiForum users and give them a taste of their own medicine.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#807

Post by Volundr »

cowtools wrote: post #768
seebs wrote: post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it did not used to be that "all forums had pervasive doxxing and swatting". That has never been true. It has never been widespread. Heck, swatting as we know it today wasn't even remotely common until quite recently, and doxxing has been actively frowned on and treated as potentially criminal since, like, the 80s. I dunno what you think you're arguing, but it's nonsense.

Doxxing and swatting has always been frowned upon, but it continues to happen regardless. So the idea that it can be curbed through social stigma and criminalization is clearly false. The technology for surveillance and publishing has only improved over time.

I mean murder continues despite social stigma and criminalization. Unless you are suggesting we legalize murder I'm not seeing your point here.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#808

Post by proffeatur8 »

more_corn wrote: post #259

It’s almost like there are some behaviors we collectively won’t tolerate and if you engage in them people will pull out all the stops to bring you down. Act like an asshole and you end up getting taken down. Who could have guessed?

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#809

Post by philosopher1234 »

cowtools wrote: post #806
elcamino44 wrote: post #784

I think it’s interesting that so many people see the danger in a Twitter “mob” effectively running Kiwifarms off the public, visible internet, without recognising that Kiwifarms themselves were a mob, with the precise goal of running people (including the recently targeted streamer) off the public visible internet too. The tactics were different, but the goal is effectively the same. The key differences are Kiwifarms…

I don't think the goal of KF is to de-platform individuals, but merely to discredit them by publishing demeaning information and rumors about them. So they are categorically different: one side is pro-free-speech, and the other side is pro-censorship. "Doxxing" doesn't restrict someone else's free speech. It just discourages them from conducting speech under their public identity. If you ask me, what they ought to do…

Oh no you can’t post hate on the internet, that’s clearly just as bad as causing someone to commit suicide.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#810

Post by WickyNilliams »

cowtools wrote: post #523
ChicagoDave wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the entire history here, but my understanding is that KF was a forum where doxing and swatting was openly pervasive. Sounds like a perfect example of society holding a site accountable and producing the correct outcome. There was no government involved, so it's not a "free speech" issue. I always talk about the wild west of the late 90's when the Internet was brand new. My colleagues and I all talked abo…

Free speech is more than just an amendment to the constitution. It is also a doctrine that knowledge and discussion should generally be free, and that people shouldn't be persecuted for their beliefs. It used to be that all forums had pervasive doxxing and swatting. People didn't use to have public internet identities like they do today- probably because there wasn't any way to profit from owning a public identity or…

> It used to be that all forums had pervasive doxxing and swatting.

There is no way this is true. I have been a member of countless forums over the decades, and have never seen or experienced this. Anecdotal of course. But for such a substantial claim as you have made, a source is necessary. Though I suspect there is none.

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