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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#191

Post by flumpcakes »

Mezzie wrote: post #163
concordDance wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being gullible here. Look at what was actually on that site and the many others that have been shut down rather than relying on reports from their enemies (oh wait, the whole point is to make it so you can't do this). When this hit Hacker news I actually went onto kiwifarms to find out what it was like because I suspected it would be killed soon. The descriptions given by most hackernews commentators d…

I've lurked on KF with an empty account for a couple of years. (I have an interest in niche drama and as a lesbian, trans drama is pushed into any space for lesbians ANYWAY). I didn't see brigading, but I did see doxxing. And of course the whole thing is a mentally-toxic nut-picking echo chamber, but that's kind of par for the course on the modern Web.

This is my experience of Kiwifarms. If you do not have a thick skin, you should not be reading there. Moreover, most of the internet is probably not suitable for people who do not want to experience offense.

And if I am brutally honest, from the threads I have seen, the people they make posts about are not people I would want to associate myself with or anywhere near young members of my family.

I have seen many more threats against Kiwifarms that I have seen originate from within it. The forum seems to be a melting pot for grossly offensive people to make grossly offensive comments. And considering 4chan is still around (even if it only used to have a problem with CSAM) I'm at a loss at why Kiwifarms is being "deplatformed".

I can only assume it's like the "jailbait" subreddit - something reprehensible but action is only taken when it gets media attention.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#192

Post by wizofaus »

caeril wrote: post #178
superkuh wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal? I think you mean PR team. They realized it would have an impact on income. There was obviously no legal issue.

On income? How would this work? As a CF customer, I am far more concerned with a policy or precedent of capriciously cutting off customers than a policy of defending "bad" customers.

That CF would have made a judgment that a larger percentage of their customers would feel uncomfortable using a service that also appears to support sites like KF is hardly surprising though. And as a corporation they're well within their rights to decide on that basis to cut off relationships with clients that they see as bad for business.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#193

Post by ohCh6zos »

maccam912 wrote: post #22

Something I'm curious about in this whole thing: who is DDoSing kiwifarms? Most people find their content reprehensible but does that usually translate into people DDoSing something?

Maybe start with the people protesting the loudest that they have DDoS mitigation?

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#194

Post by gyuopy »

Krisando wrote: post #40

It looks like KiwiFarms is still running on their onion site: http://uquusqsaaad66cvub4473csdu4uu7ahxou3zqc35fpw5d4ificedz... (Need TOR browser or Brave)

One can also use a Tor proxy (tor2web), there is a list here: https://gist.github.com/adulau/5caf188bb1f63263bf7ac00c4a19f...

For example, appending ".moe" to the ".onion" in that URL:

https://uquusqsaaad66cvub4473csdu4uu7ahxou3zqc35fpw5d4ificed...

Which also allows it to be archived (as the mainstream archive sites don't recognise Tor hidden services):

https://web.archive.org/web/20220905153904/https://uquusqsaa...

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#195

Post by zxcvbn4038 »

heartbeats wrote: post #76
zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tor services get DDOS’d all of the time - you generally have a single host somewhere that is the first hop in relaying traffic back to the service and that is easy to overwhelm. There is a hackish way to have several of those hosts but I think it tops out at a dozen. You lose a lot of audience going to Tor so might not be worth it.

No, that's not true. The first hop (last from the service's PoV) is basically randomly selected. Unless you restrict it, there will be thousands of possible IPs.

Yes but only one rendezvous point unless you do the hackish stuff. There are a lot of options for scaling the hidden service itself, but the rendezvous point is out of your control (and should be) so that is where the real constraint is.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#196

Post by wizofaus »

arcatech wrote: post #112
nemo44x wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean? That the forum operator doesn’t have moderation facilities that suits your tastes in what is and is not hate speech? A forum dedicated to the principal and culture of free speech is designed to promote hate speech?

Hate speech is clearly defined in various laws against the concept. So it’s not really up to taste. Most popular services attempt to remove hate speech, but doesn’t look like KF does. Btw, a forum dedicated to the principle and culture of free speech would absolutely (by definition) be promoting/hosting hate speech.

I'm not sure I understand your last sentence? If I were running a forum dedicated to the principle/culture of "free speech" I would think it's especially important to avoid promoting hate speech, or you run the risk that free speech and hate speech become seen as synonymous, and the wider public deciding that free speech isn't a worthy ideal after all.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#197

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

Mezzie wrote: post #141
pjc50 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you actually browsed them? When this thing hit the front page of HN I checked it out and while they say a lot of nasty stuff about people there I couldn't find an occurrence of organising online or offline harassment. That is the organizing of harassment. That's what it looks like. People are very rarely dumb enough to post "I think we should commit a crime, who's with me" on the Internet. Post enough slurs ab…

> Post enough slurs about queer people and somehow the harrasment happens without anyone having been explicitly told to do it. Post enough slurs about Muslims and someone will eventually shoot up a mosque in New Zealand. They'd do that anyway. Personally, as a gay woman, I prefer letting people say slurs because then I know who to avoid. (Which isn't to say that I think services/people can't set their own rules - Clo…

Bingo.

Freedom of Expression, and to a larger extent, social media, allows icky people to identify themselves for you.

Who wants to turn that off...and why?

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#198

Post by ShowalkKama »

tony-allan wrote: post #3
intunderflow wrote: post #2

*They still have a Tor Hidden Service, that's it though

I suspect that a TOR service is easy to DDOS. Anyone know if that's true?

heh it's quite a bit different but there are ways to avoid ddos (see dread, recon & co with endgame and onionbalance)

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#199

Post by gyuopy »

ohCh6zos wrote: post #189
that_guy_iain wrote: post #45

The thing is, it's hard to feel bad for kiwifarms. They seem to be one of the worst sites there are. But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them. Personally, I think the site being shutdown is a good thing. But it's hard to look at the fact a few corporations can remove a website from the internet and think this is good for a free and…

It appears that there is no plan for this to stop with Kiwifarms, some twitter searches lead me to believe Ovarit and Mumsnet are the next targets.

Ovarit has some interesting threads on the Kiwifarms takedown and the possibility of it happening to their site:

https://ovarit.com/o/Ovarit/146818/if-kiwifarms-stays-down-o...

https://ovarit.com/o/Cancelled/150947/kiwifarms-blocked-by-c...

https://ovarit.com/o/Cancelled/151211/kiwifarms-latest-state...

https://ovarit.com/o/Cancelled/152066/the-kiwi-has-been-rend...

Choice quote: "What I find interesting is of ALL the things on kiwi farms (and there's some vile stuff on there, threads about special needs kids, woman hating, racism etc.) and what took them down is the documenting of literal correct information about these groups of people. Not just nasty behaviour just to be mean and talk shit but documentation of this group of men's behaviour.

"There's a level of totalitarianism that’s pretty scary."

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#200

Post by goldenchrome »

deepcyanide wrote: post #158

Is it too early to say the internet is done for because it's looking that way to me. keffals has given the government the recipe to kill off any website they want gone. I'm hearing that keffals creatures are now attacking TOR to get them to drop kiwi too. This isn't going to stop, 4chan is definitely next then every other site that isn't mainstream.

I don’t think 4chan is next. I believe the site has staying power because its users are anonymous. Anonymity means it’s very difficult for leaders to emerge which means it’s difficult to rally behind a particular cause. This means it’s difficult for 4chan to grow in influence as an organized force. It’s just a steady state of low-level chaos, which is good for containment. I’m also quite confident that the FBI monitors the site and I don’t think they want to see all those borderline people scurry off into different corners of the internet should the site go offline.
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