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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#181

Post by shadowgovt »

concordDance wrote: post #67
that_guy_iain wrote: post #45

The thing is, it's hard to feel bad for kiwifarms. They seem to be one of the worst sites there are. But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them. Personally, I think the site being shutdown is a good thing. But it's hard to look at the fact a few corporations can remove a website from the internet and think this is good for a free and…

I treat these sites as cannaries. As long as they exist I can be confident that censorship isn't too bad, as they start to get shut down I start to worry. First the came for the X and I was not an X etc etc...

That X is not a variable in an infinite domain.

"First they came for the Nazis" is how World War II could be described (1), and with the exception of a few misguided sympathizers the story ends well with the destruction of their power structure and hanging of their leadership.

Probably worth noting that among the reasons KF just lost their newest DDoS protector is that many Russians are understandably sensitive to Nazi sympathizing, even "for the lulz".

(1) One could even argue that hesitating to come for the Nazis sooner was a significant mistake in the international community that allowed the severity of the War and the atrocities that occurred in it.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#182

Post by Zamaamiro »

concordDance wrote: post #67
that_guy_iain wrote: post #45

The thing is, it's hard to feel bad for kiwifarms. They seem to be one of the worst sites there are. But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them. Personally, I think the site being shutdown is a good thing. But it's hard to look at the fact a few corporations can remove a website from the internet and think this is good for a free and…

I treat these sites as cannaries. As long as they exist I can be confident that censorship isn't too bad, as they start to get shut down I start to worry. First the came for the X and I was not an X etc etc...

What about the freedom of speech of all those they harass and dox?

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#183

Post by [deleted] »

DFHippie wrote: post #131

This, I think, is a useful perspective for all those here talking about free speech: https://slate.com/technology/2022/09/kiwi-farms-cloudlfare-a... The point is that if you're using your speech to silence people, not by disproving their arguments but through terror and the destruction of their reputation and social network, when you silence people by lying about them, your speech is a threat to free speech. By prote…

[deleted]

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#184

Post by Zamaamiro »

concordDance wrote: post #133
noasaservice wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think you're being gullible here. Look at what was actually on that site and the many others that have been shut down rather than relying on reports from their enemies (oh wait, the whole point is to make it so you can't do this). When this hit Hacker news I actually went onto kiwifarms to find out what it was like because I suspected it would be killed soon. The descriptions given by most hackernews commentators d…

“We’ll I didn’t see anything” is a terribly unscientific methodology.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#186

Post by polygamous_bat »

Hamcha wrote: post #152
maccam912 wrote: post #22

Something I'm curious about in this whole thing: who is DDoSing kiwifarms? Most people find their content reprehensible but does that usually translate into people DDoSing something?

People pay for DDOS for the stupidest reasons, one of my favorite game servers have been under constant DDOS attack because they changed their discord icon in support of Ukraine.

It may also be the case that it's not "people paying others to DDOS" and rather a state-level actor trying to influence their actions.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#187

Post by PenguinCoder »

concordDance wrote: post #133
noasaservice wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think you're being gullible here. Look at what was actually on that site and the many others that have been shut down rather than relying on reports from their enemies (oh wait, the whole point is to make it so you can't do this). When this hit Hacker news I actually went onto kiwifarms to find out what it was like because I suspected it would be killed soon. The descriptions given by most hackernews commentators d…

So you go to the source site _after_ the evil things they've done are reported on, and the site posted a rebuttal. And you think you're getting a true, unaltered representation of the things that occured BEFORE this happened? Bad take.

> saw no organised harassment, doxing, brigading

Either because it was now removed or hidden from public view. These activities have definitely occured on KF and just because you "don't see it happening now", doesn't mean it hasn't.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#188

Post by shadowgovt »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #164
Bakary wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often hear this argument, but the US is currently on a much clearer trajectory towards increased authoritarianism than most EU countries/CANZUK despite all of this freedom. The situation is more complicated than just straightforward definitions of what freedom is. What really matters is not edge cases where some forum or other is banned, but whether your society is populated with authoritarian ideologies and to wha…

In the US the government just ask corporations to censor content and they comply. Activists will spout their usual XKCD-interpretations of free speech, which is legally correct, but heavily fails to see the larger picture.

The internet was founded on very laissez-faire speech attitudes. We've been living the larger picture for decades; it's how we got where we are.

Does the old laissez-faire approach continue to work when more than half the living population is online?

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#189

Post by ohCh6zos »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #45

The thing is, it's hard to feel bad for kiwifarms. They seem to be one of the worst sites there are. But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them. Personally, I think the site being shutdown is a good thing. But it's hard to look at the fact a few corporations can remove a website from the internet and think this is good for a free and…

It appears that there is no plan for this to stop with Kiwifarms, some twitter searches lead me to believe Ovarit and Mumsnet are the next targets.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#190

Post by ohCh6zos »

manicdee wrote: post #161
concordDance wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being gullible here. Look at what was actually on that site and the many others that have been shut down rather than relying on reports from their enemies (oh wait, the whole point is to make it so you can't do this). When this hit Hacker news I actually went onto kiwifarms to find out what it was like because I suspected it would be killed soon. The descriptions given by most hackernews commentators d…

Right, because they would let someone who created an account in the last month or two and has no presence into their hunting lobby?

Right now there is no way to have a good faith argument due to the witch hunt. Anyone who 'confessed' to being active is a witch so their word is no good, and anyone who isn't active doesn't know the dark sorceries of the inner circle so their word is no good.
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