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The quantum computing bubble

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41–50 of 144 posts

Re: The quantum computing bubble

#41
post #33

> at some point the claims will be found out and the funding will dry up. Someone hasn't been watching the cryptocurrency markets. That's partly tongue in cheek. But there are countless examples of the market remaining irrational longer than one can stay solvent. Witness the continued success of BTC and Ether, amid newer options that outperform them on every tech-related metric, often by many orders of magnitude. I c…

> "amid newer options that outperform them on every tech-related metric" What outperforms Bitcoin in terms of decentralization, scalability, and resilience?

The Mina Blockchain [0]

[0] https://docs.minaprotocol.com/static/pdf/technicalWhitepaper...

Re: The quantum computing bubble

#42
post #6

There’s also billions going into commercial fusion reactors, which haven’t turned net positive yet. The goal of the investment is to build that capability tho, same (I think?) as with quantum computing. Weird critique imo.

Thing is fusion is known to be possible - the sun and hydrogen bombs. Quantum Computing lacks equivalent existence proofs. There's a lot of abstract theory but no real indication it is possible to scale up in the real physical world to useful problem sizes and reasons to doubt that it is possible.

Re: The quantum computing bubble

#43
post #40
post #6

There’s also billions going into commercial fusion reactors, which haven’t turned net positive yet. The goal of the investment is to build that capability tho, same (I think?) as with quantum computing. Weird critique imo.

The physics underpinning fusion was proven in the 1950's. Since then it's been an engineering problem. The physics underpinning qc was arguably proven in the 2020's. It's not quite done (in the way that fusion was not quite done in the 50's) but there is a fairly clear set of demonstrations that QC's with error correction are possible. However the engineering barriers are fierce and there is still a possibility that…

I forgot to mention something else - the exact results of QC algorithms are read probabilistic from the instruments that read out the state of the machine. The confidence intervals for these results is important. I do not think that the results for every demonstration are read to 7 sigma... Be careful about this because if you are seeing a result of an exact algorithm that's read to 3 sigma then it's probably best to rate it as equivalent to a heuristic that gives a result within 0.01% 99.99% of the time (I am being generous). It's all in the small print in the annexes...

Re: The quantum computing bubble

#44
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s like, at a vacuum tube era, at best. How is it even remotely close? Vacuum tubes were a thriving industry, producing many groundbreaking products and services.

Yet before that stage, they were a new tech, no one even had ideas of how to use. So far, quantum computing is used in labs, not for any real useful purpose.

So it's a meaningless description then of a tech's development. Somewhere between new/useless and mature/ubiquitous.

Re: The quantum computing bubble

#45
Commenting on this, now that it's making its third or whatever pass on HN. Also Scott Aaronson's comments are interesting: https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=6670

> The most prominent application by far is the Shor algorithm (opens a new window)for factorising large numbers into their constituent primes, which is exponentially faster than any known corresponding scheme running on a classical computer. Since most cryptography currently used to protect our internet traffic are based on the assumed hardness of the prime factorisation problem, the sudden appearance of an actually functional quantum computer capable of running Shor’s algorithm would indeed pose a major security risk.

> Shor’s algorithm has been a godsend to the quantum industry, leading to untold amounts of funding from government security agencies all over the world. However, the commonly forgotten caveat here is that there are many alternative cryptographic schemes that are not vulnerable to quantum computers. It would be far from impossible to simply replace these vulnerable schemes with so-called “quantum-secure” ones.

Note that Shor's algorithm breaks not just factoring, but also discrete log, including elliptic curve discrete log. That includes classic DH and DSA of course, as well as ECDSA and ECDH, whether they're over Bitcoin's curve, the other NIST curves, Brainpool, {curve,ed}{25519,448}, pairing-friendly curves, everything. Almost all broadly deployed public-key crypto uses RSA or elliptic curves. Those alternative public-key algorithms are still being worked out, and will take years to broadly deploy, so if a QC gets built, it will probably be able to break into straggling systems for some years. There is also a risk that the replacements will eventually fall to quantum or even classical attack, especially considering that a significant fraction of the proposed replacements already have fallen (most recently SIKE) or been weakened (eg, every multivariate quadratic sig). They may also have other security problems, eg implementation bugs or side-channel attacks.

The surviving quantum-secure algorithms are all either pretty inefficient (McEliece and SPHINCS+, and CSIDH and SQISign but those are also bleeding-edge), or use structured lattices (Kyber, Falcon, Dilithium, NTRU and NTRU prime, etc) or structured codes that look kind of like structured lattices (BIKE, HQC). So we'll have most of our eggs in just a couple of baskets again, and outside of applications that can use McEliece and SPHINCS+, they'll be newer, less-tested baskets. Also, while fast, the structured lattice and structured code systems still use significantly more bandwidth that elliptic curves.

Using long-term symmetric keys instead of or in addition to public-key crypto is possible in some applications, but it's obnoxious and limiting: you'd end up with some combination of Kerberos derivatives (with trusted third parties acting as single points of security failure), mailed smartcards or other secrets, and physical in-person meetings to set up shared keys.

So the bigger issue in my view is that outside of Bitcoin, breaking crypto is mostly a net negative for society. Transitioning to quantum-secure crypto is also a negative, in that it will take a ton of work and the replacements are less efficient than elliptic curves, and may have security problems. (It's also probably unavoidable because governments will try to build QCs to break crypto even if private industry doesn't.) So all this money is being spent on something whose first major application will be negative, if it even works at all. Hopefully the positive stuff will outweigh this.

Re: The quantum computing bubble

#46
post #30

How did this come about? I think it's a very simple case of misunderstanding and overpromising. There are many interdisciplinary fields that mesh with computation. We have DNA computers and neural turing machines. QC is a subfield of quantum mechanics, one of many with some interesting applications but nothing shows that it has open-ended potential to revolutionize computation. But, it has the word 'computation' in i…

It was definitely sold as the next step in computation.

A real performant quantum computer could potentially revolutionize a lot of industries. But selling it as an accelerator of molecular dynamic simulations is not quite as sexy.

Re: The quantum computing bubble

#47
post #15

>That means these firms are collecting orders of magnitude more in financing than they're able to earn in actual revenue — a growing bubble that could eventually burst. >"The little revenue they generate mostly comes from consulting missions aimed at teaching other companies about 'how quantum computers will help their business,'" well, that makes QC bona fide a tech industry.

Surely Accenture is already training thousands of people to help businesses transform their strategy towards web4 qApps and the quantumverse.

Re: The quantum computing bubble

#48
I don't understand this argument at all. Of course it isn't making money yet-- that's because it's an early technology that is still being researched. Sure it might never mature, but it seems crazy to call it a "bubble" or to analyze it based on current sales figures.

Re: The quantum computing bubble

#50
According the OP, the quantum computers that are feasible today have no real-world use, and likely won't have any real-world uses in the near term, despite claims to the contrary by executives and salespeople. Quantum computing research, the OP asserts, is an academic pursuit, not a commercial one, but it is funded by investors who think it's the latter. The entire piece can be summarized as "Look! The emperor has no clothes!"

Quoting:

> Billions of dollars have poured into the field in recent years, culminating with the public market debuts of prominent quantum computing companies like IonQ, Rigetti and D-Wave ... These three jointly still have a market capitalisation of $3bn, but combined expected sales of about $32mn this year (and about $150mn of net losses), according to Refinitiv.

> The reality is that none of these companies — or any other quantum computing firm, for that matter — are actually earning any real money. The little revenue they generate mostly comes from consulting missions aimed at teaching other companies about "how quantum computers will help their business", as opposed to genuinely harnessing any advantages that quantum computers have over classical computers.

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