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Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

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Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#231

Post by okaram »

mattdeboard wrote: post #131
frostwarrior wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an interview a few days ago and I asked something similar. I asked about the possibility to travel to the US to greet my coworkers and work alongside them. They said they won't raise my salary and they expect me to stay in my region (Latin America). They also said that if I go to the US or Europe, it would be though to live there with my remote salary. It felt somewhat insulting tbh. As if they said "we want yo…

Exactly. Alienation from the fruits of your labor. It's disgusting we expect people to tolerate it, and act like it's not a totally optional choice by management to exploit labor resources to get a better return on investment for the already wealthy. A modern take on colonization.

It's a choice by management,but it's an obvious choice.

We should not expect everyone to be a horrible person, only motivated by profit, but we also should not expect people to act against their own interests all the time.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#232

Post by kodah »

kleinsch wrote: post #22

Your pay is based on the cost to hire your replacement. That’s it. There’s no crazy conspiracies, there’s no moral failing, they’re not running a calculator of how much value you generate. Would it sap your motivation to learn there are people doing your same job at FAANGs making double what you make? Or that some other job makes more money than you? Location based pay is just another variable. As with everything in…

> there’s no moral failing,

Sorry, but this logic needs to stop. If a company is selling a product online for a fixed cost to an entire region then the people who contribute to that product that do the same thing should be paid the same amount. That is, indeed, a moral failing.

If a company wants to pay workers less based on where they live then their product should be similarly cheaper. We just don't see this though.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#233

Post by Friday0722 »

pyrodactyl wrote: post #28
seibelj wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with these arguments is that there is supposedly a permanent class of “owners” and one of “workers”, and the workers are completely without agency nor ability to become owners themselves. Especially in software, a good idea can be converted into a business with minimal friction no matter where you live. America has helped created more Latino millionaires than any other business through McDonald’s franchisi…

I see that my post might come off as complaining, but I asure you it's not the case. I do "hustle" as you call it, and that's why I wanted to know other opinions on this. And I'm not coming at this from a class based marxist ideology. I'm asking for equal pay for equal work, which isn't a radical idea. Also, though I do work in a software company, I am not a developer or deal with serious tech in anyway.

You need to ask yourself why the company hired you in the first place. You might perceive yourself to be an equal, but as shitty as it is, most likely the company and your colleagues do not. They should, but they probably don't. The company looked overseas to hire you in the first place solely because you were cheap labor. If you were not willing to work for cheap, they would not have hired you at all, they would have hired a local instead or found someone else overseas who would work for much less. That's the unfortunate reality - it's not about you as an individual, it's not about what you do, it's about what you are to them - cheap labor.

Ask yourself, if the roles were reversed, why would you want to hire someone from the United States to work for your business wherever you are based? You'd probably prefer to hire locally. The only reason you'd start looking abroad is if there was some value in doing so, and that might be for cheap labor, or it might be that when selling product overseas you want a person local to that area selling to the people of that area because they might be more successful at selling than a foreigner.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#236

Post by imron »

> The reasons they've given me are weak and I want to debunk them.

Debunking them on HN is pointless.

The only way to debunk them is to find a job that will pay you what you think you are worth.

At least now you know the pay scales and should have an idea for what you are worth based on the work you can deliver.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#237

Post by karaokeyoga »

timmyboop wrote: post #227
quickthrower2 wrote: post #95

Kind of depends what you are getting paid, but if it is less then $100k say, you can easily find remote jobs that pay more, play them off against each other. The companies are using sharp business practice to get you as cheap as possible, you can do the same to get as much as possible. Apply for 100 remote jobs, interview, smash the interviews, ask for top $ from all of them. See https://remoteok.com/ , etc. If on he…

>Kind of depends what you are getting paid, but if it is less then $100k say, you can easily find remote jobs that pay more, play them off against each other. Someone from Asia who is pretty good at their work can get a fully international remote job that pays north of 100K USD? Is this practically possible or is it super difficult like say getting into MIT or CMU. I'm asking because this seems farfetched and I have…

I am in Tokyo, working for an SF-based startup, and am making $180K/year. Translated into yen, it's about 2 or 2.5 times the amount I could hope to get locally. Full disclosure: I have no university degree, and am not a guru/superstar/10x engineer. I am intermediate-senior and competent, no more.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#238

Post by jelliclesfarm »

One important point not discussed is that wages paid in a HCOL zipcode will be spent within said zipcode..it fills the tax coffers that funds the infrastructure of the corporations that have a ‘you-scratch-my-back-I-will-scratch-yours’ arrangement with the city govt.

Example: when Twitter and Lyft and Uber got tax moratoriums from San Francisco to establish HQ so the employees will move in and spend their wages and pay taxes and all the good stuff. Except SF dropped the ball. Vs. The South Bay has historically had a better relationship with the FAANGs..Apple or Google will never leave Bay Area. South Bay takes good care of Silicon Valley. And the favour is returned. It costs millions and millions to build and keep 880 et al smooth running.

There is no benefit to paying someone in a LCOL zipcode the same wages as as in a HCOL area.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#239

Post by kodah »

If a company accepts a flat rate across the nation for their services but then pays you differently based on where you live then you should find new work. I came from an area where software engineers are routinely underpaid compared to their cohorts and the only thing I could do was leave and build up enough experience to work for companies that don't do geopay.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#240

Post by jiveturkey »

> felt more like a cog in a machine.

to be fair, you are. regardless of geopay or not.

comparison is the thief of joy. but if you must compare, do so against local companies.

you didn’t mention that the job stunk or was otherwise bad. just that you were paid less. if you don’t think the pay is fair, the course of action here is pretty obvious …

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