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Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

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Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#191

Post by matheusmoreira »

mattdeboard wrote: post #119
pyrodactyl wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not a crazy conspiracy, I know it's pretty clear why it's being done. And I know I can't do anything about it other than look for new opportunities. But should location based pay be just accepted because that's the norm? There are variables that can't be used to do discriminate like age, gender, race, sexual orientation etc. We've accepted equal pay for equal work in these cases. Is it that far fetched that even…

I agree with you it's horseshit. What you're saying sincerely makes total sense to me. Has to feel terrible. I would feel detached from my work as well, I think. You're experiencing alienation from the fruits of your labor. Your labor being exploited to maximize profit. Unfortunately, the comments here are right. It "makes sense" in the sense these experiences are characteristic of life within capitalism as a laborer…

You don't know the worst of it. In my country, it is almost always better to be "exploited" by US companies than to be "treated well" by local employers. Sad but true.

The USD exchange rate is just too good for exporation of goods and services. They simply offer more, despite the wage arbitrage. More money, more benefits. The typical US software developer salary is a truly ridiculous amount of money here due to the 5x multiplier, and even a fraction of it outcompetes every local enterprise I've ever seen.

I know exactly how it feels to see people in developed countries making 10 times what people here make on average.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#192

Post by chrismcb »

swatcoder wrote: post #85
kleinsch wrote: post #22

Your pay is based on the cost to hire your replacement. That’s it. There’s no crazy conspiracies, there’s no moral failing, they’re not running a calculator of how much value you generate. Would it sap your motivation to learn there are people doing your same job at FAANGs making double what you make? Or that some other job makes more money than you? Location based pay is just another variable. As with everything in…

> Your pay is based on the cost to hire your replacement. That’s it. Only in an imaginary world of perfect information and labor liquidity, which is about as far from what we have (and could have) as can be. Location-adjusted pay for remote US workers is indeed a social norm, proposed by some firms and accepted by enough of labor for it to work for them. It persists mostly because it exists and because there’s no org…

I'm not sure why you think this is not helpful. Yes there is a bit more to it than "how much does it cost to replace you" but it is correct and is helpful. You can still have a discussion, but about what?

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#194

Post by rtlfe »

extragood wrote: post #88
rtlfe wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't expect an employer to pay way above the local market rate for a position. This would certainly be true for a business where all the employees and clients are local, but doesn't have to true for a global company with fully remote jobs. If I'm providing as much value as an SF-based employee and demand a raise to 80% of SF pay, the company would be foolish to let me leave.

Is your cost of living anywhere close to what it would be in SF? The average 1 bedroom apartment costs $3,060/month [1] or $36,720/year. The tax rate is high, and depending on where in the world you are, there are additional expenses such as healthcare that need to be factored in as well. If we're only concerned with fairness in compensation, cost of living must be a factor. [1] https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/s…

> If we're only concerned with fairness in compensation, cost of living must be a factor.

No. The most fair thing a for-profit company can do is pay people proportional to how much value they add to the company. If it's a lot of value you can choose to live in an expensive city. If not, you have to live somewhere cheaper.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#195

Post by jlkuester7 »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #95

Kind of depends what you are getting paid, but if it is less then $100k say, you can easily find remote jobs that pay more, play them off against each other. The companies are using sharp business practice to get you as cheap as possible, you can do the same to get as much as possible. Apply for 100 remote jobs, interview, smash the interviews, ask for top $ from all of them. See https://remoteok.com/ , etc. If on he…

> If they are paying you less than you are worth, they are not your friend, don't feel bad about moving to another job immediately.

This 1000℅. Honestly, even if they are paying you what you are "worth", remember the company is not your friend. (You may have friends that work there and you may feel loyal to those beside you in the trenches. That is great! But never forget that the company does not exist for your sake and you do not exist for the company!) Do what is best for you and your's and do not feel bad about it!

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#196

Post by chrismcb »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #154
closeparen wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were true companies would never hire in the Bay Area, or even the United States. There’s always a cheaper alternative. The question is, once the company has decided it wants you, what’s that going to take? Making national median offers to Bay Area candidates essentially swears off of ever hiring them. That could be a choice, but for now it remains a bench of talent and experience that companies want to draw f…

> Making Bay Area offers to rural candidates is giving them 4-5x their next best option, which is characteristic of either a) the devil, or b) rich people making expressive displays rather than business transactions. No? If you budget to hire two employees at Bay Area salaries and don't care where they work, you should pay them Bay Area salaries regardless of where they work. Plenty of companies do this. It's fine. I…

But if you can hire two people from anywhere, why budget may area salaries?

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#198

Post by uf00lme »

I agree with you that most of the general HR arguments don’t hold water and are philosophical at best. All they try to do is hide the fact that you are not paid the way you are because of your talent or efforts. In most EU/commonwealth countries you can thank unionism for the benefits you have.

For multinationals, one thing to note is the location of the employees normally has very little to do with the talent and staff costs but mostly tax, politics/corruption, networking, or leadership preferences. Employee talent and costs are really generally not the focus of why companies setup shop where they do.

It can mess with your mind, and feel really unjust when you know of US sized bonuses going out that equate to more than full time salary in other regions doing equivalent roles. Even staff that are generally mediocre can often wing it whilst others go over and above getting a pittance.

It helps my sanity to know that we are all just cogs in a system and it’s not at all personal. Salary is a cost for doing business in some locations and everyone is completely replaceable. Also AI is probably going to wipe the floor of us all soon enough…

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#199

Post by AlbertCory »

jbay808 wrote: post #143
AlbertCory wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people don't consider Canadian English "passable" :)

We're quite willing to misspell "colour" for US rates!

if you can stop pronouncing "south" as "soath" we might be OK with it.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#200

Post by quelltext »

wruza wrote: post #135
googlryas wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you accept if your landlord got upset when he saw how much some people are being charged for rent in silicon valley, and decided to triple your rent?

If it makes your neighborhood and/or city very similar to these in SV, why not?

So, like full of homeless people and litter? No, thank you.
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