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Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

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Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#21

Post by wahnfrieden »

seibelj wrote: post #19
wahnfrieden wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between an indie dev flipping an idea into a profitable app with their own hands vs say the approach taken by the Fast CEO. I didn't even get into ideology stuff or politics, only a material description of what he's seeing - but looks like you are repeating a bunch of rw talking points there without helping the OP.

[flagged]

nah I gave OP a bunch of specific tactics for increasing pay that don't require them to necessarily rip themselves out of their current community and move etc. You're also getting needlessly and inaccurately nasty, you don't know me at all but you are happy to assign a bunch of labels to "my ilk" just because I don't simp for a boss. I'm also not a socialist or a marxist

edit: thanks!

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#22

Post by kleinsch »

Your pay is based on the cost to hire your replacement. That’s it. There’s no crazy conspiracies, there’s no moral failing, they’re not running a calculator of how much value you generate. Would it sap your motivation to learn there are people doing your same job at FAANGs making double what you make? Or that some other job makes more money than you? Location based pay is just another variable. As with everything in jobs - if you don’t like the comp structure, it’s very rare you’ll argue them into changing it. If there are other companies who have comp structures you like more, go get a job there. If you can’t find any, you’ve probably learned something about the job market.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#23

Post by vivegi »

It is simple economics and markets in action.

It appears you are probably employed somewhere in Asia and you are comparing with similarly titled roles within your company/outside your company in other geographies like US/EU.

Salaries are generally local labor market and demand-driven. Think of it this way. If you leave the company, chances are the company backfills your position with someone having the same job skills from the same local market. If there is a certain supply of labor force in your local market at a certain salary level, your company is going to use that to peg your salary; not the salary level at which they get similar skills in Amsterdam/London/New York/San Francisco.

Also, if the company has established offices in say US/EU and India, they are trying to play a cost arbitrage play. Certain goods/services cost higher in US/EU and lower in Asia (and vice versa too). Labor costs are higher in US/EU compared to Asia (most locations).

Unfortunately, this is the norm and has been for centuries.

My advice:

1. Stop doing exchange rate conversions of foreign labor market salaries for the similar positions and losing your mental peace.

2. If you are in a position where you can immigrate to the foreign country, consider doing that (if not permanently, at least for a few years).

3. If that does not work for you and if you have selling/business development skills, you may consider freelancing for clients from the US/EU regions and bill them as a contractor at rates they are used to domestically (this is a whole another ball game and you need to build a client roster and work may/may not be steady).

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#25

Post by amelius »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #4

There's no real winning these on a point by point basis because the entire system of wage labor is set up to separate you from the value you create for owners as much as the market will bear. Employers agree with this openly every time they talk about how this is a market, though they avoid the charged language and obfuscate it by drawing focus to other ideas. These kind of logical points from employers are not rules…

> The best way for workers to beat these pay systems is to apply organized pressure collectively

Telling HN could be a first step for that.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#26

Post by seibelj »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #21
seibelj wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

nah I gave OP a bunch of specific tactics for increasing pay that don't require them to necessarily rip themselves out of their current community and move etc. You're also getting needlessly and inaccurately nasty, you don't know me at all but you are happy to assign a bunch of labels to "my ilk" just because I don't simp for a boss. I'm also not a socialist or a marxist edit: thanks!

Best of luck to your software development union collectively organizing to raise wages

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#27

Post by abcd_f »

It's in part the cost of living (which is a very valid argument) and in part basic supply/demand.

If there is an oversupply of qualified people in your country willing to work for lower wages, that is what you are competing with, not people in the EU/US.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#28

Post by pyrodactyl »

seibelj wrote: post #13
wahnfrieden wrote: post #4

There's no real winning these on a point by point basis because the entire system of wage labor is set up to separate you from the value you create for owners as much as the market will bear. Employers agree with this openly every time they talk about how this is a market, though they avoid the charged language and obfuscate it by drawing focus to other ideas. These kind of logical points from employers are not rules…

My problem with these arguments is that there is supposedly a permanent class of “owners” and one of “workers”, and the workers are completely without agency nor ability to become owners themselves. Especially in software, a good idea can be converted into a business with minimal friction no matter where you live. America has helped created more Latino millionaires than any other business through McDonald’s franchisi…

I see that my post might come off as complaining, but I asure you it's not the case. I do "hustle" as you call it, and that's why I wanted to know other opinions on this.

And I'm not coming at this from a class based marxist ideology. I'm asking for equal pay for equal work, which isn't a radical idea.

Also, though I do work in a software company, I am not a developer or deal with serious tech in anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#29

Post by seibelj »

pyrodactyl wrote: post #28
seibelj wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with these arguments is that there is supposedly a permanent class of “owners” and one of “workers”, and the workers are completely without agency nor ability to become owners themselves. Especially in software, a good idea can be converted into a business with minimal friction no matter where you live. America has helped created more Latino millionaires than any other business through McDonald’s franchisi…

I see that my post might come off as complaining, but I asure you it's not the case. I do "hustle" as you call it, and that's why I wanted to know other opinions on this. And I'm not coming at this from a class based marxist ideology. I'm asking for equal pay for equal work, which isn't a radical idea. Also, though I do work in a software company, I am not a developer or deal with serious tech in anyway.

Your other post said you were demoralized and “quiet quitting”, or collecting a paycheck and fucking around.

That may work for a while, but long term you will be unfulfilled and miserable. It’s time for a change

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#30

Post by pkrotich »

I agree with you that it's unfair and senseless but it's market dynamic (supply and demand) with capitalism bend to it.

There are probably hundrends of people with your capabilities, where you're now, willing to work at your current pay scale and probably thousands elsewhere in poorer places willing to work for much less than you. Not to mention even more - who are as capable as you're - but lack the opportunity you have because things like infrastructure (internet access for example).

On the flip-side your colleagues are probably looking at you as a saleout - depressing thier already-high (to you) wages. And yes, they're absolutely right beause beside your skill-set, the company is saving money by paying you less and in addition to having more laverage on you. Remember the outsourcing debates in the past years? Someone else is probably saying you stole their job too! What do you say to such person yourself?

Even here in America, Silicon Valley salaries can be truly shocking for some of us outside the valley. I think it's a little unfair to us smaller campanies without millions of VC money to burn but such is life. If you started a company where you're - will you be paying American salaries?

I agree with you that you shouldn't migrate to get paid the same for the same job. Hopefully as jobs become location agnostic - we can only look into the future on how the market will change and balance out the unfairness you're feeling.

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