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Blocking Kiwifarms
961–970 of 1001 posts
Re: Blocking Kiwifarms
#962I find it utterly bizarre that CloudFlare considers itself some paragon of free speech whilst they have been caught red handed arbitrarily shutting peoples domain names down in their registrar service, even going so far as to prevent people from transfering their domains to other registers and accelerating domain expiry dates. Source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31576353
There's a difference in that the termination procedure this thread and the one its derived from talks about is about fraud, which is defined by law and prosecuted, rather than an opinion. When you learn about fraudsters using your service you can either GTFO as soon as possible or get involved with the police unless you want to risk criminal liability for being complicit. Make whatever Kiwifarms does illegal and Clou…
Terminating service to someone suspected of fraud is one thing. This is normal.
Preventing someone from transferring their domain to another registrar + accelerating it's expiration/cancellation date + stonewalling appeals is another thing entirely. That is going above and beyond. Domain cancellation is absolutely relevant to the conversation on free speech.
Re: Blocking Kiwifarms
#963>The policy we articulated last Wednesday remains our policy. >have our cake and eat it too. I don't get this corporate reverse speak. They literally went against the policies stated on Wednesday and then plainly say "But this violation of that policy doesn't reflect on our policies overall." I get that Kiwifarms is hated, that doesn't make black turn to white and up turn to down. Cloudflare reneged on everything the…
As I remember the policy they posted had exceptions for sites that were dangerous/etc. I think what they did today is completely consistent. What I DON’T get is why they didn’t think the site was dangerous last week. When I read their policy it seems to clearly state they wouldn’t work with a group like kiwifarms, and yet they posted a whole post explaining why they were. I agree it’s a flip-flop, I guess I see it fr…
If CF is going to police the internet then they had better do it fairly and justly. I do not believe CF is equip to do that, and neither does Prince. That is the issue here as evidenced by the parent and GP being unclear on the rules. It’s very hard not to see this decision to terminate KF as a corporate knee jerk.
Re: Blocking Kiwifarms
#964I'm sorry but no. The law is the minimum level of enforcement for a working society, not an ethics guide. You're allowed to do better than wait for the situation to go from multiple suicides to a PR crisis before taking action. If I offered protection to a group of unreasonable actors and discovered they needed protection because they like to bully people into taking their own life for fun , the last thing I would wa…
Anyway, do we really want the police handing our internet businesses lists of criminals to manage directly? I for one don't want government and police taking full control over managing access for supposed bad actors, to cover ALL criminal activity without moderation accountability from site owners.
Re: Blocking Kiwifarms
#965As far as I can tell this action by cloudfare has not accomplished its stated objectives. The site is still up at another url: https://kiwifarms.ru/threads/fuck-cloudflare.128846/ Additionally, a single deleted post (or even a handful of them) being a cause for attempted removal from the internet seems like a precedent that would kill every host of user generated content, including hackernews and twitter.
it has just moved and they are already complaining about intermittent access issues. and now former fbi director is saying that their desperate move to russian servers elevates their risk of US marking them as domestic terrorists. so the campaign does appear to be having some impact, and is not over.
Re: Blocking Kiwifarms
#966I think a lot of people in the comments don't understand what Kiwifarms is. I say this as someone who occasionally browses there and gets some (admittedly sick) enjoyment from it: the main draw of the website is a place for people to get together and bully mentally ill "weirdos". It's not just about people posting offensive shit in their own little corner of the internet - what happens there spreads out, by design, i…
> there's a good chance they may have saved Keffals' life.
Last I looked kiwifarms was still available on the url listed on their wiki page (not to mention posts viewable via the internet archive). Does this mean Keffals is going to die? I'll bet £100 of mine to $1 of yours she isn't killed by anyone this with a kiwifarm association in the next year.
Also, you have a very poor understanding of the frequency of internet shitposting if you're taking a random bomb threat on the internet seriously, those things happen thousands of times a day qnd amount to nothing 99.9999% of the time.
Re: Blocking Kiwifarms
#967Something I am curious about is why these things (de-platforming of websites for example) are so US-centric. What I'm wondering is whether it is because: 1. Only US-based websites and forums get to that level of extremism that is cause for de-platforming. I find this option the hardest to believe (pretty sure there are hideous things in other countries as well). 2. The infra is mostly US-based (Cloudflare, cloud prov…
In Facebook's case in relation to genocides they enabled and promoted, they said that their have to prioritize their attention and don't have the resources to give the same level of care to all nations globally. They produced a list of economic powers that they are primarily monitoring. This was in part responsible for unchecked flagrant abuse in countries outside the global north.
Re: Blocking Kiwifarms
#968Reading over the comments I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not. It’s about what in the US you’d call “due process” and in all the rest of the world you’d call “rule of law.” Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be…
How do you intend to generalize this case to other websites with user-generated content? Because the precedent set today is that a single threatening user-generated comment is enough to pull Cloudflare security services for the entire site, regardless of how quickly the website performs their own moderation, as long as it stays up long enough to be screenshotted and passed around on Twitter. That's basically carte bl…
It is generalized: CF dropped 8chan and archive.is few years ago.
I wonder that KiwiFarms worked for so long and that Gab.com is still on CF.
Re: Blocking Kiwifarms
#969Reading over the comments I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not. It’s about what in the US you’d call “due process” and in all the rest of the world you’d call “rule of law.” Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be…
>I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not.
Says the people blocking access.
>the risk created by the content
What risk? Fearmongering is always the first defense of those who wish to limit free speech. "Something will happen if we don't." Can I get a crystal ball like yours from amazon?
>no one else who should was stepping up in spite of being aware of the threat.
What threat?
>Encourage you when these issues arise to think of them in the rule of law context, rather than free speech,
Free speech should trump the rule of law. When it doesn't you end up with tyranny.
Re: Blocking Kiwifarms
#970Just remember everyone, the precedence this sets.. All you have to do to get a site taken down is create an account and make a ridiculous threat, even if the post is taken down in less than 30 minutes and the user banned, the site is still guilty. And never forget that keffals has gone on record saying that their enemies (KF) is irredeemably evil because of the mean things they say, and thus no tactic against them is…
>Just remember everyone, the precedence this sets.. All you have to do to get a site taken down is create an account and make a ridiculous threat, even if the post is taken down in less than 30 minutes and the user banned, the site is still guilty.
AgainstHateSubreddits has been doing this to subreddits they don't like for years, except they were posting child porn, not threats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG8xWJaJO-c
Grass roots agent provocateurs who believe that there is no such thing as wrong actions, only wrong targets.