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Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

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Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#1

Post by pyrodactyl »

Recently I got to know the pay scales that my peers and even junior developers are getting in the US/EU. It is substantially more even though we do the same work. Though I've known about this policy, getting to know the numbers is extremely jarring. It's causing a lot of resentment and detachment to work from my side.

I've raised this issue with my manager and they've told me that I can transfer if i want those pay scales but that's not a possibility for me. If the company is willing to pay me that amount in a different location, why can't it pay me the same here?

The reasons they've given me are weak and I want to debunk them.

1) cost of living - a lot of my colleagues are in locations where they can buy independent houses which are cheaper than an appartment in the city I live. Real estate in my country runs on black money, and I'll probably never be able to own a house. Some of the EU countries provide free health care and education, I'm just a major health issue away from poverty. Most of them come from nuclear family cultures, where as I take care of my retired parents and younger siblings, and if i get married that's a whole new family.

2) talent - if they are more talented than me then why am I in a more senior role than them. And my talent won't change if I change location so why should my salary

3) something about not trapping in a high salary job - I dont even know what to say about this. I would love to be in that trap instead of the one I'm in right now where I'm being forced to migrate, where I would loose my family, friends and all the support structures I've built around me, to receive the same benefits as my peers.

This seems senseless to me. What would the company gain if I work from a different location that they would pay me more? It feels like a poverty tax and I've never felt more like a cog in a machine.

What do others think about this and how do you deal with this?

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#2

Post by throwawaysleep »

> What would the company gain if work from a different location that they would pay me more?

More that if you are in a different location, they pay you less. You are flipping the default here, which is almost certainly American salaries.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#3

Post by pyrodactyl »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #2

> What would the company gain if work from a different location that they would pay me more? More that if you are in a different location, they pay you less. You are flipping the default here, which is almost certainly American salaries.

Sorry I forgot to mention that I'm not from America, so moving there or to EU would increase my pay.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#4

Post by wahnfrieden »

There's no real winning these on a point by point basis because the entire system of wage labor is set up to separate you from the value you create for owners as much as the market will bear. Employers agree with this openly every time they talk about how this is a market, though they avoid the charged language and obfuscate it by drawing focus to other ideas.

These kind of logical points from employers are not rules or based in any reality except for ones where they simply have power over you to suppress your pay. Hence why these "rules" shift over the years as standards shift in favor or away from workers. These are among myriad tricks for fighting a class war against labor and maximizing extracted value. The best way for workers to beat these pay systems is to apply organized pressure collectively, not for you to have a private conversation with your boss or HR.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#5

Post by pyrodactyl »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #4

There's no real winning these on a point by point basis because the entire system of wage labor is set up to separate you from the value you create for owners as much as the market will bear. Employers agree with this openly every time they talk about how this is a market, though they avoid the charged language and obfuscate it by drawing focus to other ideas. These kind of logical points from employers are not rules…

Thanks for verbalizing this so well, I've been thinking the same recently and that's what's causing me to withdraw from my work.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#6

Post by wahnfrieden »

pyrodactyl wrote: post #5
wahnfrieden wrote: post #4

There's no real winning these on a point by point basis because the entire system of wage labor is set up to separate you from the value you create for owners as much as the market will bear. Employers agree with this openly every time they talk about how this is a market, though they avoid the charged language and obfuscate it by drawing focus to other ideas. These kind of logical points from employers are not rules…

Thanks for verbalizing this so well, I've been thinking the same recently and that's what's causing me to withdraw from my work.

Remember also that they prefer demoralized workers leave on their own since there's no need to provide exit compensation/benefits. Look out for employers "quiet quitting" on YOU.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#7

Post by tarakat »

The reasons they gave are lies. They're paying you less because (they think) they can. That's all there is to it.

Another reason is because they know where you live, and the salaries in that location. Keep that in mind when someone says they have "nothing to hide" - this is how companies use such information. To better determine the absolute minimum they can offer you (or maximum they can sell you).

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#8

Post by pyrodactyl »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #6
pyrodactyl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for verbalizing this so well, I've been thinking the same recently and that's what's causing me to withdraw from my work.

Remember also that they prefer demoralized workers leave on their own since there's no need to provide exit compensation/benefits. Look out for employers "quiet quitting" on YOU.

Quiet firing as it is being referred to if I'm not wrong. And it is working.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#9

Post by pyrodactyl »

tarakat wrote: post #7

The reasons they gave are lies. They're paying you less because (they think) they can. That's all there is to it. Another reason is because they know where you live, and the salaries in that location. Keep that in mind when someone says they have "nothing to hide" - this is how companies use such information. To better determine the absolute minimum they can offer you (or maximum they can sell you).

And they have publically published those lies like it's something to be proud of? Reading the link my manager shared with me about these reasons, which is publically accessible, made me want to puke.
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