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Uber’s Still Not Profitable

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21–30 of 34 posts

Re: Uber’s Still Not Profitable

#21
post #4

To add to this, as a German, the future of Uber does not look great in Europe as well. The taxi lobby is strong here, and I’m sure regulations will come in countries like Germany and will affect negatively their business. And they're starting to face stronger competition from other companies like Bolt.

As a European I would like to say that using normal taxis is an absolutely terrible experience. It’s expensive, no way to get reviews about a driver/select for quality, you’re often not quoted a price up front/you don’t know how much you’ll end up paying/whether their meter is rigged, it’s hard to quickly get a taxi (many independent operators), and the list goes on. I sure hope Uber succeeds in Europe.

Re: Uber’s Still Not Profitable

#22
I realized everyone wants to pile on Uber for a multitude of reasons, but this article misses a huge macro problem - that’s the transportation industry as a whole has never been profitable.

While yes, their are rare expeditions (Southwest), airlines / buses / etc has never been a profitable sector.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gabeklein/2019/04/23/why-making...

Re: Uber’s Still Not Profitable

#23
post #5

As a layman, it still blows my mind that giant companies can operate at such a massive loss for so long, seemingly without any road to profitability. Mobility startups in particular keep failing, and new ones keep getting funded. My daft question is why? Why do they keep betting on the same losing horse. I often joke that my humble little website is massively more profitable than a few of those companies combined.

Why is Uber not profitable?

The taxi business is profitable business and Uber launched app-based taxis.

So I expect Uber is not profitable because of conscious choices, not because the business has "no road to profitability".

Re: Uber’s Still Not Profitable

#24
Side note but I take offense reading things like this: "The company bet big on formalizing its program of worker misclassification, teaming up with Lyft and other gig-work companies to spend $225m to pass California's Proposition 22, which would allow the company to abuse its drivers with impunity."

Both the left and the right tend to claim that election results are rigged, but of course only when they don't like it.

Prop 22 was directly voted by the people of California with a relatively huge margin for a Proposition - 58%. Yes Uber etc spend a lot of money promoting it but many other Props with big money support have failed. Treating voters like sheep that vote on whatever is being advertised is naive and dangerous.

The right will do the same thing, usually not claiming money influence but rather using the fact that big media is mostly left leaning.

Both sides have to trust the voters may know what they want and perhaps it wasn't the money or the articles that drove the election results, but policies.

Re: Uber’s Still Not Profitable

#25
post #24

Side note but I take offense reading things like this: "The company bet big on formalizing its program of worker misclassification, teaming up with Lyft and other gig-work companies to spend $225m to pass California's Proposition 22, which would allow the company to abuse its drivers with impunity." Both the left and the right tend to claim that election results are rigged, but of course only when they don't like it.…

> perhaps it wasn't the money or the articles

Lol yeah, "perhaps" it wasn't. "Perhaps" proponents just spent that $200 million on the campaign for no reason.

Re: Uber’s Still Not Profitable

#26
post #24

Side note but I take offense reading things like this: "The company bet big on formalizing its program of worker misclassification, teaming up with Lyft and other gig-work companies to spend $225m to pass California's Proposition 22, which would allow the company to abuse its drivers with impunity." Both the left and the right tend to claim that election results are rigged, but of course only when they don't like it.…

> Treating voters like sheep that vote on whatever is being advertised is naive and dangerous.

If this wasn’t true then why do modern presidential races spend hundreds of millions on advertising?

Re: Uber’s Still Not Profitable

#27
post #24

Side note but I take offense reading things like this: "The company bet big on formalizing its program of worker misclassification, teaming up with Lyft and other gig-work companies to spend $225m to pass California's Proposition 22, which would allow the company to abuse its drivers with impunity." Both the left and the right tend to claim that election results are rigged, but of course only when they don't like it.…

> Both the left and the right tend to claim that election results are rigged, but of course only when they don't like it.

I see considerable difference between "They lied to voters to get what they wanted" and "the counts are bogus because I don't like them" which still in 2022 appears to be a popular Republican position.

Not least practically the solutions are very different. Notice how the solution in the latter case is first pointless "audits", which maybe tells us that too many Republicans lack intro-to-arithmetic level understanding of how numbers work. Then though, attempts to stop people voting or to simply override the outcomes, with the effect that you get to "win" all subsequent elections regardless, thus quietly abolishing democracy...

Meanwhile a consequence of the former is that voters eventually realise they were lied to, but don't often get a do-over. People who've secured the vote they wanted will insist it's final and mustn't ever be reconsidered, I'd argue that's because they know they lied and the voters will eventually realise too so they don't want democracy any more.

By the time Brexit was "delivered" many of those who'd voted for it understood they'd been lied to, and the numbers keep going up, but you won't find many politicians with any interest in revisiting, not least because many of them got very wealthy betting against their own country's economy knowing it would be destroyed.

Turns out that you can get turkeys to vote for Christmas (hmm, is that a saying in the US, or do you say "Thanksgiving" here?), but, many of the turkeys are not so happy about that once they realise their fate.

> Both sides have to trust the voters may know what they want and perhaps it wasn't the money or the articles that drove the election results, but policies.

I don't agree that we need to just trust. We should work hard to ensure voters are better informed where possible, and - which is important here - we should use direct democracy (ie voting on issues like this proposition) only sparingly if at all. The reason we have elected representatives is so that they can dedicate their working lives to actually caring about these decisions. Are some of them corrupt? Incompetent? Lunatics? Sure, but replacing those representatives based on their character is an easier vote than having all these propositions.

I remember lots of friends were very happy when the Republic of Ireland got rid of its constitutional prohibition on abortion which they did via direct democracy. But I saw this as cowardly. The politicians didn't want to face the Catholic Church and a minority of potentially violent anti-abortion campaigners, so they said "Give it to the people".

Re: Uber’s Still Not Profitable

#28
post #5

As a layman, it still blows my mind that giant companies can operate at such a massive loss for so long, seemingly without any road to profitability. Mobility startups in particular keep failing, and new ones keep getting funded. My daft question is why? Why do they keep betting on the same losing horse. I often joke that my humble little website is massively more profitable than a few of those companies combined.

> As a layman, it still blows my mind that giant companies can operate at such a massive loss for so long, seemingly without any road to profitability. This is the effects of quantitative easing on our economy. We wanted to hypercharge our economy and encourage investments after the 2008 crash, but now things have become too bubbly. A lot of these companies that exist today are functionally useless / wastes of money…

Wasn’t QE introduced to deal with the last round of this? I think the real problem has been the way wealth has been concentrating since the 1980s — the thing all of this has in common from the dotcom bubble on has been wealthy people sitting on huge piles of cash but looking for high return “investments” rather than building real businesses. The first real estate bubble was fueled in part by the large sovereign oil funds looking to recoup their losses from the dotcom bubble, and that’s the same source as much of Uber’s funding.

A carbon tax would help with that one in particular but it’s seemed for a while that we just need more pure taxation on passive returns & wealth to discourage accumulation on that scale. The economy just doesn’t work efficiently with a handful of people making so many decisions, especially when they mostly weren’t capable of making that much money with their own skills.

Re: Uber’s Still Not Profitable

#29
Loss driven growth is just a pyramid scheme to make early investors rich. Not sure what the solution is, but one could be to tax cap gains on non profitable companies (massively) higher than what the tax on profit would be.

Re: Uber’s Still Not Profitable

#30
Please stop using the medium links for Cory Doctorow articles!

This article (from a month ago) can be seen without medium's tracking and ads on Doctorow's personal blag here: https://pluralistic.net/2022/08/05/a-lousy-taxi#a-giant-aste...

On a sub-topic: I wonder how many people commenting on California's Proposition 22 actually live in California. If they did, they would never question the idea that the idiot herd here was influenced by the advertising.

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