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Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

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Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#261

Post by doctor_eval »

tsunamifury wrote: post #23

I had a Porsche Taycan almost kill me and my entire family due to the absolutely negligent engineering team at porsche. An update was applied which killed the motor due to a stack overflow error — while driving! Porsche set up the error handling to kill the engine immediately with even the slightest error. I testified along with fellow owners to the NHTSA and got all Taycans recalled. The arrogance and denial that Po…

VW like to paint electrification as a way to atone for the sins of dieselgate. Seems like nothing really has changed.

(I had an affected diesel engine, in Australia the process to be compensated was an absolute disgrace).

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#262

Post by doctor_eval »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #17
dependsontheq wrote: post #8

I wouldn't call it "woes". I have been driving an VW ID 3 since last year, it runs their custom Android OS System and should have all of the latest features. It has been quite an experience. The car is fine, basic driving functions are fine, even the driver assist features are generally fine if they are running. The software running all the displays and the "augmented" heads up display is ridiculous. The car one did…

I've been driving a 27-year-old Range Rover for a year. Sometimes I need to hold the ignition key close to the receiver in the rear window for it to lock. Sometimes I need to jiggle the steering lock a little for the flappy door to close and tell it the key is out, before it will lock. Sometimes I need to poke the "petrol flap" button a couple of times before the flap will open. Sometimes the radio doesn't really get…

Any ICE vehicle can blow a belt, take out the power steering and brakes, and leave you struggling to maintain control, at any time.

Let’s not get overly nostalgic for the incredible mechanical complexity of ICEs.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#263

Post by ahartmetz »

PicassoCTs wrote: post #255
martin8412 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the default for everyone working in Europe

Is it really though? I ve been going around european companies and its all work till you drop 80h culture and no holiday, cause we need a guy on standbye. That stuff only ever exists on paper.

Which companies in which countries? I'm in Germany and I have never ever seen or (from friends and acquaintances) heard of vacations not taken due to pressure from the employer. It's about as common as an employer arbitrarily deciding to transfer less than the agreed amount of salary at the end of the month - maybe some very dubious employers have done it at some point, but it's not something to worry about.

What is fairly common is employers reminding employees to take their vacation days before they expire. Vacation days from year n expire in April or so of year n+1. That is intended to prevent postponing vacations to never (maybe until switching jobs).

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#264

Post by pjmlp »

PicassoCTs wrote: post #255
martin8412 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the default for everyone working in Europe

Is it really though? I ve been going around european companies and its all work till you drop 80h culture and no holiday, cause we need a guy on standbye. That stuff only ever exists on paper.

Which countries, I have worked in several European countries, and none of them were that bad.

That looks like a case that needs to be reported to work inspection authorities.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#265

Post by pjmlp »

martin8412 wrote: post #218
pjmlp wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay and benefits are good, 40 h/w + extra when overtime happens, 30 day vacation,....

That's the default for everyone working in Europe

Nope, it is common in central and northern Europe, in other countries that would be part of extra package on top of what the local law requires.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#266

Post by Gordonjcp »

doctor_eval wrote: post #262
Gordonjcp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been driving a 27-year-old Range Rover for a year. Sometimes I need to hold the ignition key close to the receiver in the rear window for it to lock. Sometimes I need to jiggle the steering lock a little for the flappy door to close and tell it the key is out, before it will lock. Sometimes I need to poke the "petrol flap" button a couple of times before the flap will open. Sometimes the radio doesn't really get…

Any ICE vehicle can blow a belt, take out the power steering and brakes, and leave you struggling to maintain control, at any time. Let’s not get overly nostalgic for the incredible mechanical complexity of ICEs.

There are no cars where the brakes are powered by the drive belt. Not even the very old hydropneumatic Citroëns, with a belt-driven hydraulic pump - because they could go for 20 or 30 miles on the stored pressure in the brake accumulator.

If you can't control a car with dead power steering, you can't control a car. Power steering only makes a difference at parking speeds.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#267

Post by tsss »

lacker wrote: post #58
gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important In many ways this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. An organization thinks software engineers aren't very important. And it doesn't pay the sort of salaries you need to get the top talent. So it doesn't have any top-tier software engineers, and their software team stru…

The salaries at the big car companies are not bad actually (compared to other German companies... compared to the US they are pitiful, of course). The problem is the company culture. If you look at the recruitment material you will immediately notice this attitude of infantilization they have towards IT. They don't attract that kind of talent who's in it for the thrill of problem solving. They end up getting all the morons who like the brand and IT salary but have no passion for technology and it really shows in the product. Zalando is exactly the opposite: They sell extremely uncool shoes and are 1000 times as innovative as BMW with their sports cars. MOIA is also much better than their parent corporation Volkswagen.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#268

Post by mkl95 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #251
jillesvangurp wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems a popular sentiment in this thread. But there are of course quite a few unicorns that emerged out of Europe and there is of course the notion that a lot of the mobile networks in the world are running on software that came out of Ericsson or Nokia, which are the dominant options if you don't want to go with Huawei instead. There is of course the notion that Silicon Valley has produced a lot of amazing comp…

>a lot of the mobile networks in the world are running on software that came out of Ericsson or Nokia Ericsson's and Nokia's software divisions are offshoring bodyshops at this point. They do the complex RF R&D in Finland, Sweden and Germany and the software/firmware is offshored to Eastern Europe and India.

Ericsson do some R&D in Southern Europe as well. A friend of mine works there for a below market average salary.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#269

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

mkl95 wrote: post #268
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a lot of the mobile networks in the world are running on software that came out of Ericsson or Nokia Ericsson's and Nokia's software divisions are offshoring bodyshops at this point. They do the complex RF R&D in Finland, Sweden and Germany and the software/firmware is offshored to Eastern Europe and India.

Ericsson do some R&D in Southern Europe as well. A friend of mine works there for a below market average salary.

>works there for a below market average salary

Traditional European tech companies in a nutshell.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#270

Post by kmac_ »

yalogin wrote: post #171

I wonder if the exact same story as the iPhone vs Nokia/Motorola/Microsoft/et al is happening in electric cars. At least the article hints at the exact same thing happening. May be folks more knowledgeable with the auto industry might be able to comment

It's the same story: no matter if it's phone, TV, car, home, washing machine - it comes to product vs product. The core functionality is the most important, but all things around also matter. TVs are quite similar, so competition moved to the smart functions, phones become smartphones, etc.
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