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Blocking Kiwifarms

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#821

Post by kanbara »

andywood wrote: post #653
notatoad wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>rather than free speech i encourage anybody who is calls themselves a "free speech advocate" to consider what kiwifarms has been doing to "free speech". their intimidation campaigns have been doing a lot more to harm the cause of free speech than this decision by cloudflare is. if you really believe in free speech, you understand that trans people deserve free speech too, and kiwifarms harrasment campaigns have been…

> what kiwifarms has been doing to "free speech" What? Testing it? To make sure we can actually exercise it in practice? Because "be careful how you use it or you might ruin it for everyone" wasn't ever how the 1st amendment was meant to work. Like, what would be the point. Let's let the 1st amendment say you have to check in with anyone sensitive and if they don't like it, you can't say it, because "we live in a soc…

private companies have no obligation under the 1st amendment. violence and hatred have no place in this world or on the internet.

i'm ashamed of all the people who stand up and defend nazis, fascists, and cyber-bullying and doxxing. this isn't about sensitivity it's about vile human actions, and viewpoints like yours are what allowed for fascism to spread in europe, asia, and america.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#822

Post by kanbara »

Test0129 wrote: post #31

Quoted post unavailable.

i too enjoy supporting fascist and right wing groups whose only goal is to spread hatred anarchy and violence.

CF is not the internet, nor is it a government. you can always found or find a provider for your hate speech, just like KF did with an .RU domain.

your viewpoint is the terrifying one, and quite frankly one that has been used over the decades to allow hateful bullshit in the name of "tolerance" and has caused undue harm and death.

your philosophical pure idea of freedom of speech is just that-- it does not work in the real world.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#824

Post by kanbara »

chroma wrote: post #820
eastdakota wrote: post #391

Reading over the comments I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not. It’s about what in the US you’d call “due process” and in all the rest of the world you’d call “rule of law.” Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be…

Freedom of speech isn't about speech. It's about hearing. There are people who want to read or listen to what others have to say, and often for reasons besides agreement with the author's statements. By silencing someone, you are preventing others from reading what they want to read or hearing what they want to hear. I certainly don't agree with the posts and comments on kiwifarms, but I want to understand what they…

providing hateful content spreads hate. clinging to some idea that absolute freedom of speech allows us to be moral and just is quite frankly bs when the spread of fascist / terrorist / homophobic / racist propaganda contributes to the destruction of democracy and the very freedoms we hold dear

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#825

Post by MisterBastahrd »

xupybd wrote: post #519
notatoad wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>rather than free speech i encourage anybody who is calls themselves a "free speech advocate" to consider what kiwifarms has been doing to "free speech". their intimidation campaigns have been doing a lot more to harm the cause of free speech than this decision by cloudflare is. if you really believe in free speech, you understand that trans people deserve free speech too, and kiwifarms harrasment campaigns have been…

Free speech is about giving people the freedom to say things I find disgusting. It's about giving each individual the choice to listen to what ever influence they wish. It takes the the power of ideas and elevates them above physical force.

No post body was provided.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#826

Post by TulliusCicero »

Cyberdog wrote: post #558
eastdakota wrote: post #391

Reading over the comments I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not. It’s about what in the US you’d call “due process” and in all the rest of the world you’d call “rule of law.” Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be…

> Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. > That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be the ones making that call, and no one else who should was stepping up in spite of being aware of the threat. This is the logic of vigilantes. I'm not saying what you have done is on the same leve…

That's not what "vigilante" means.

A business terminating their relationship with a problematic customer is not "vigilantism".

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#827

Post by matkoniecz »

MBCook wrote: post #97
serf wrote: post #41

>The policy we articulated last Wednesday remains our policy. >have our cake and eat it too. I don't get this corporate reverse speak. They literally went against the policies stated on Wednesday and then plainly say "But this violation of that policy doesn't reflect on our policies overall." I get that Kiwifarms is hated, that doesn't make black turn to white and up turn to down. Cloudflare reneged on everything the…

As I remember the policy they posted had exceptions for sites that were dangerous/etc. I think what they did today is completely consistent. What I DON’T get is why they didn’t think the site was dangerous last week. When I read their policy it seems to clearly state they wouldn’t work with a group like kiwifarms, and yet they posted a whole post explaining why they were. I agree it’s a flip-flop, I guess I see it fr…

I do not remember this in https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflares-abuse-policies-and-a... - and searching for "dangerous" and "exception" finds nothing relevant

Also:

> Since those decisions, we have had significant discussions with policy makers worldwide. From those discussions we concluded that the power to terminate security services for the sites was not a power Cloudflare should hold.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#829

Post by matkoniecz »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #486

I think a lot of people in the comments don't understand what Kiwifarms is. I say this as someone who occasionally browses there and gets some (admittedly sick) enjoyment from it: the main draw of the website is a place for people to get together and bully mentally ill "weirdos". It's not just about people posting offensive shit in their own little corner of the internet - what happens there spreads out, by design, i…

I know what Kiwifarms is - but

> The policy we articulated last Wednesday remains our policy

seems clearly untrue. They changed mind and decided to proactively ban bad website (and yes, it was actually bad website).

Nevertheless it was censorship and immediate destruction of their earlier promise.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#830

Post by chroma »

kanbara wrote: post #824
chroma wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech isn't about speech. It's about hearing. There are people who want to read or listen to what others have to say, and often for reasons besides agreement with the author's statements. By silencing someone, you are preventing others from reading what they want to read or hearing what they want to hear. I certainly don't agree with the posts and comments on kiwifarms, but I want to understand what they…

providing hateful content spreads hate. clinging to some idea that absolute freedom of speech allows us to be moral and just is quite frankly bs when the spread of fascist / terrorist / homophobic / racist propaganda contributes to the destruction of democracy and the very freedoms we hold dear

OK, apply that logic to the Bible and the Qur'an. Both endorse slavery. Both encourage believers to hate gays and to treat women as chattel. Countless followers have dedicated their lives to the tenets in these books, and in many cases they end up harming others because of it. Are you going to ban those books? If not, why not?
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