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Ask HN: Generalist contractors, what is your hourly rate?

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Re: Ask HN: Generalist contractors, what is your hourly rate?

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, I've never seen a benefit package that gets me excited. With our health care system here, the FTE jobs are a lot less compelling vs the contractor route. About 1/20 that go the FTE equity route seem to hit the jackpot.

Freelancing is as stressful as it can get. No matter where you are an FTE, freelance will get you much further in terms of stress.

Some people are just unable to stop. My wife was like that in her small business. Her mindset was something like: I can't watch TV, I'm wasting money I could be earning. Even if there's no work right now, you can always do business development. It can become a trap.

Re: Ask HN: Generalist contractors, what is your hourly rate?

#283
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but it's easy to say money isn't everything when you're already earning £120k/$140k pa.

I seriously doubt parent is earning that much. I expect they probably bill avg 10-15 days per month at that rate. Most contractors like them in the UK that I know operate this way most of the time.

> I seriously doubt parent is earning that much.

And for all good reasons. They have to pay taxes. So yes, they change £500/day but they’re on progressive tax rate with a maximum of what, 38%? At least that’s what it was some years back when I was based in the UK. Hitting that tax rate in fourth month of a fiscal year easily.

Re: Ask HN: Generalist contractors, what is your hourly rate?

#284
In Australia, the most common scenario is a "contractor" being a borrowed casual employee from a labour hire company and the worker gets paid per hour worked whilst being able to work 40 hours per week until the end of a project (typical durations being between 1 to 3 years). This is generally a better arrangement than being a permanent employee because:

1. Your leave (that most people can never use as they aren't sick enough or aren't going to wait around 7 years for long service leave) is paid as you go and thus you accumulate the leave between contracts.

2. You don't have to waste as much time on company/organisation bureaucratic processes such as training you didn't want to do, having to write out performance agreements, attending all staff meetings talking about the 2% pay rise you might get each year, etc and instead you can focus on getting your job done and building out your CV faster.

3. Generally contractors are kept on longer than permanent staff if a project or organisation is on the slide as contractors can be cut off abruptly and without reason when things get really bad, whereas an organisation needs to spend much more effort reducing permanent staff numbers and therefore have to start the process earlier for reducing permanent staff. Permanent staff get 4 weeks minimum notice of being made redundant whereas contractors on paper get 1 hour/1 day notice. In reality, contractors get more notice because they'll see permanent staff redundancies on the way and know to start looking for other work and if it doesn't arrive quickly, the organisation will have got rid of permanent staff quite often before they let their last contractors go.

4. It's easier to get labour hire work because there is less risk to both parties in just having a single meeting and then agreeing to a start date of tomorrow. If it doesn't work out for either party, the agreement can just as readily and easily be cancelled soon thereafter and not much is lost by either party. Permanent staff have to jump through multiple rounds of interviews, waste the valuable time of those in their work network to complete references, etc.

5. It forces workers to re-evaluate their worth at the end of each project as they're back on the market and will ask for current market rates for their next engagement. Permanent staff that stay more than 2-3 years in a role won't be re-evaluated at current market rates and will fall behind significantly in salary.

Labour hire rates are readily discoverable on AusTender (Australian government website for publishing awarded contracts). For example, a SAP consultant at [1] was recently hired for what is likely a 1 year "full time" (1762hrs) term and charged to the Australian government at AUD$363,000 (including GST). From this published figure you can then deduct 10% GST, 6.85% payroll tax (ACT), insurance costs, payroll costs, etc to arrive at approximately AUD$300,000 equating to an hourly rate of AUD$170/hr (at 1762hrs worked in the year which is 40hrs/week x 44 worked weeks of the year). For low overhead labour hire firms, a casual employee may take home AUD$160/hr from this arrangement which is roughly equivalent to a AUD$280,000 salary assuming long service leave, 4 weeks notice and redundancy payouts are negligible if a permanent worker was changing jobs at the usual rate of every 2-3 years. A permanent employee would be lucky to get a salary package of AUD$220,000 from this arrangement in part because the company has to cost in the chance of the employee staying long enough to be eligible for long service leave, redundancy payouts, etc.

General labour hire rates for Australian government work (and this generally transfers across sectors to private sector rates in ICT fields that are competing for similar talent) range from casual employee take-home rates of AUD$120/hr (business analysts etc) to AUD$190/hr (architects etc).

The second type of "contractor" is where a services business is established that has numerous clients and/or may hire employees or engage subcontractors, accepts risk for work completed, carries a variety of insurances, manages more complex finances, performs a significant degree of business development to find more clients, etc. They are generally engaged for intermittent work at a week here, 2 days there, three weeks later, etc and rates can typically range from AUD$250/hr to AUD$400/hr. Typically work is not performed for less than a day at a time and there is a form of retainer agreement (often exceeded or extended). It is harder to find typical market rates for these services. Whilst you can see these arrangements pop up on platforms such as AusTender, you're never really sure how many hours of services have been included and the conditions of those services. For example, whether travel is an additional expense charged separately (typical case) or whether travel expenses are built into the rates.

[1] https://www.tenders.gov.au/Cn/Show/95fbaed8-b19d-4fcb-8f89-d...

Re: Ask HN: Generalist contractors, what is your hourly rate?

#285

$2k per day. hourly always invites discussions, for example how are phone calls with mixed topics billed?

i assume that invites a discussion about what a day is. is that an easier discussion? how does it go? or does it not invite discussion?

Any day, or part of, is the rule we work by, that way once they start you for the day they try and keep you entertained all day.

Otherwise it can be on and off and surprisingly the jumping between different clints/projects on an hour by hour basis is extremely demanding and limiting of productivity when done in an ad hoc fashion.

Re: Ask HN: Generalist contractors, what is your hourly rate?

#286
post #284

In Australia, the most common scenario is a "contractor" being a borrowed casual employee from a labour hire company and the worker gets paid per hour worked whilst being able to work 40 hours per week until the end of a project (typical durations being between 1 to 3 years). This is generally a better arrangement than being a permanent employee because: 1. Your leave (that most people can never use as they aren't si…

"The second type of "contractor" is where a services business is established that has numerous clients and/or may hire employees or engage subcontractors, accepts risk for work completed, carries a variety of insurances, manages more complex finances, performs a significant degree of business development to find more clients, etc."

Yeah so in private small/medium general engineering (eg electrical, mechanical, safety, controls etc) it's hard for the organisation to be profitable on any less than AUD200 per hour, paying out 60-70% of that to their best people and less for less experienced, but also slightly lower chargeout.

Larger public companies I am hearing maybe $50 more, but they have really been screwing contractor rates down, while seemingly putting little effort towards overheads.

Genuine talent is getting hard to find, people who can develop design from first principals rather than just what they have seen before (if that) is getting tougher and tougher, mainly because it is a specialised skill but EPC management views all engineers as fungible and hate to pay extra for even obvious talent, fearing a tsunami of rate increase claims from the donkeys.

Re: Ask HN: Generalist contractors, what is your hourly rate?

#287
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Venture Capital and FANG pay obscene money because their business models can afford to, they just happen to be powered by software. The actual work of software development isn't somehow worth more to society than your average white collar job, at least in my opinion. It's just another job, and it would be better for the world if the pay came down rather than everywhere get inflated, so that software could thrive in o…

Their business models can afford to pay a lot because these companies generate that much cash. They drive that much cash because software can be highly leveraged (whereas plumbing cannot). Having salaries come down to means shifting where the profits are distributed and allowing the company owners and investors to capture more in comparison to the employees. I don't see how this is better?

It's still not great, but I am thinking of the negative externalities of tying up all software developers in tech bubbles, and having such a highly inflated class of worker in your cities.

Taxing those profits more readily might be one way to make the value from these insanely profitable software plays be more fairly distributed across society.

Re: Ask HN: Generalist contractors, what is your hourly rate?

#288
post #284

In Australia, the most common scenario is a "contractor" being a borrowed casual employee from a labour hire company and the worker gets paid per hour worked whilst being able to work 40 hours per week until the end of a project (typical durations being between 1 to 3 years). This is generally a better arrangement than being a permanent employee because: 1. Your leave (that most people can never use as they aren't si…

For readers not familiar with salaries in Australia, [1] indicates that a labour hire employee in Canberra on a take-home rate of ~AUD$120/hr places that person in the top ~3.6% of income earners in Australia and easily within the top 1% of the world. Per the OECD Regional Well Being Index[2], Canberra shares a 10/10 score for income with a small number of other US regions and is the only non-US OECD region with a 10/10 income score. When considering other quality of life factors, Canberra easily leads the OECD regional index at a sum of 106.74 vs. 82.81 for California, which also scored 10/10 for income. New Hampshire, Minnesota and Vermont share second place at a sum of 96 with income scores of 9.9-10 and fifth place was Victoria (Melbourne) in Australia at a sum of 95 with an income score of 5.8.

[1] https://www.ato.gov.au/About-ATO/Research-and-statistics/In-...

[2] https://www.oecdregionalwellbeing.org/assets/downloads/OECD-...

Re: Ask HN: Generalist contractors, what is your hourly rate?

#289

$2k per day. hourly always invites discussions, for example how are phone calls with mixed topics billed?

Exactly. Using a day rate has several more advantages. You can skip a lot of the bookkeeping. And companies are a lot more mindful of your time when they buy it by the day. If I have to join a 15 minute meeting, I lose more than just those 15 minutes. It's a context switch, I might want to prepare before hand, reflect on it afterwards. Etc. If I bill by the day, than that's fine. I'm yours for the day. Neither of us will be staring at the clock and it's not like I'll be doing anything else that day.

Re: Ask HN: Generalist contractors, what is your hourly rate?

#290
post #288
post #284

In Australia, the most common scenario is a "contractor" being a borrowed casual employee from a labour hire company and the worker gets paid per hour worked whilst being able to work 40 hours per week until the end of a project (typical durations being between 1 to 3 years). This is generally a better arrangement than being a permanent employee because: 1. Your leave (that most people can never use as they aren't si…

For readers not familiar with salaries in Australia, [1] indicates that a labour hire employee in Canberra on a take-home rate of ~AUD$120/hr places that person in the top ~3.6% of income earners in Australia and easily within the top 1% of the world. Per the OECD Regional Well Being Index[2], Canberra shares a 10/10 score for income with a small number of other US regions and is the only non-US OECD region with a 10…

> When considering other quality of life factors, Canberra easily leads the OECD regional index at a sum of 106.74 vs. 82.81 for California, which also scored 10/10 for income.

Although ... Canberra is also incredibly small, boring and barely anything ever happens while California is a cultural hub.

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