Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Blocking Kiwifarms

blog.cloudflare.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

681–690 of 1001 posts

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#681

Post by systemvoltage »

causality0 wrote: post #649
eastdakota wrote: post #391

Reading over the comments I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not. It’s about what in the US you’d call “due process” and in all the rest of the world you’d call “rule of law.” Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be…

Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. Post the screenshot then. Show us what changed between when CF said "KF is acting within the bounds of the law and will remain online" and today. Refusing service to customers you find contemptible is completely reasonable. Continuing to service customers out of a sense…

If you go on Twitter, 90% of the replies aren't happy with Cloudflare's action. They want Cloudflare to do more and blaming CEO for why it took so long.

https://twitter.com/eastdakota/status/1566188237986893824

Just shows how the activists are hammering Cloudflare CEO into submission. These people want complete abandonment of Freedom of Speech/Expression despite of what CEO is saying in this thread that it isn't about FoS/FoE.

I am just terrified of what holds for our future. We used to celebrate speech as progressives back in the 90's and used to defend it with fierce opposition to any supression. They say, freedom and liberty are one generation away, if the newer generation wants CCP-style authoritarianism, they will get it.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#682

Post by Alu- »

eastdakota wrote: post #469
philippejara wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, can we know what was this great threat then that suddenly made you change your position in just a few days? Furthermore, do you believe that someone who is issuing a threat on a public platform is going to not act it out because you took it away? If anything it just sounds like it would make them even more incensed to do it, just makes absolutely no sense to frame it as some immediacy issue.

Yes, as noted in the post if you read to the end, I am very concerned about that.

So all it takes is for a malicious actor to engage in false flag operations against me and CF will completely walk back their abuse policies and terminate my services, even if I act the best I can to moderate and remove the offending content? I'm not saying what happened on Kiwi Farms was a false flag because I don't know that, but neither do you. It's hard to process just how antithetical your actions today are compared to your words 3 days ago.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#683

Post by derac »

schleck8 wrote: post #675
derac wrote: post #654

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't trust any screenshot coming out of Kiwifarms since I've seen an edited screenshot tweeted with 10 thousand likes from a (now suspended) popular KF user. You could only see it if you know what to look out for, there was a masking error on the overlayed image in one corner. And the tweet's text was most likely edited with dev tools.

Ok, well these things were posted publically on Twitter so there will be many first hand accounts and possibly backups from trusted 3rd parties. Shouldn't be that hard to figure out. I have personally seen some of these tweets as I watch Destiny from time to time and she comes up.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#684

Post by asah »

eastdakota wrote: post #391

Reading over the comments I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not. It’s about what in the US you’d call “due process” and in all the rest of the world you’d call “rule of law.” Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be…

I'd like to have seen some transparency, e.g. post redacted examples of the content that caused this conclusion.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#685

Post by teg4n_ »

zionic wrote: post #405
serf wrote: post #41

>The policy we articulated last Wednesday remains our policy. >have our cake and eat it too. I don't get this corporate reverse speak. They literally went against the policies stated on Wednesday and then plainly say "But this violation of that policy doesn't reflect on our policies overall." I get that Kiwifarms is hated, that doesn't make black turn to white and up turn to down. Cloudflare reneged on everything the…

Cloudfare really snatched defeat from the jaws of victory here. Their Wednesday post was fantastic, and for once I had an ounce of hope they’d do the right thing. Of course they took less than a week to completely cave, falling back on their spineless nature. This kind of institutional rot starts at the top, they desperately need a new CEO. Utility “companies” don’t get to pick and choose, if you pick and choose you…

I don’t think companies just get to decide to be a utility company anyway. It is clearly a play to disregard responsibility. If governments started treating them like a utility and started requiring things like free services to people who don’t make a certain amount of money or price caps you bet your ass they would fight it tooth and nail.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#686

Post by asah »

altcognito wrote: post #140
ffwszgf wrote: post #53

Cloudflare can do whatever it wants but I wish they were honest about it. The claim that there has been some “dangerous escalation” in the past 2 weeks is nonsense. If anything the owner has been monitoring the thread more proactively and making sure people follow the law. This is included not allowing the creation of new accounts and reminding everyone that their data will be turned over to the authorities should it…

> The claim that there has been some “dangerous escalation” in the past 2 weeks is nonsense. I don’t believe you have the same information as cloudflare and assuming good faith I believe them when they say there are legitimate threats to body and person. They have a responsibility to their investors to insure that their brand isn’t used to coordinate violence. Dont just shrug your shoulders while a small group invite…

We can't know, because Cloudflare provided no evidence (e.g. redacted examples) to justify their decision.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#687

Post by [deleted] »

donohoe wrote: post #71
Icathian wrote: post #40

There were no good choices for Cloudflare here, and everyone across the internet who jams their fingers in their ears and shouts their position repeatedly is just contributing to the problem. Private companies should not be the de facto moderators of free speech in our society. They are forced into that position by woefully inadequate governance by legal authorities operating multiple decades behind the current lands…

Private companies should not be the de facto moderators of free speech Hate speech and organizing to harass and other IRL hate acts is not ‘free speech’. That was the major point.

[deleted]

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#688

Post by asah »

Icathian wrote: post #40

There were no good choices for Cloudflare here, and everyone across the internet who jams their fingers in their ears and shouts their position repeatedly is just contributing to the problem. Private companies should not be the de facto moderators of free speech in our society. They are forced into that position by woefully inadequate governance by legal authorities operating multiple decades behind the current lands…

There was a better choice - do what they did, AND THEN JUSTIFY IT - show the court of public opinion redacted samples about why they took this action.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#689

Post by betwixthewires »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #486

I think a lot of people in the comments don't understand what Kiwifarms is. I say this as someone who occasionally browses there and gets some (admittedly sick) enjoyment from it: the main draw of the website is a place for people to get together and bully mentally ill "weirdos". It's not just about people posting offensive shit in their own little corner of the internet - what happens there spreads out, by design, i…

I'm not familiar with kiwi farms besides hearing the noise about them periodically and second hand accounts of them doing this or that, but I'll be candid here, how I feel about it really depends on what they mean by "weirdos." If they're just harassing trans people or whatever I can understand the outrage. If they're exposing child predators on discord (I've heard this said in this thread, don't know if it's true or not) I wouldn't say I'm unsympathetic.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#690

Post by hackerlight »

Icathian wrote: post #40

There were no good choices for Cloudflare here, and everyone across the internet who jams their fingers in their ears and shouts their position repeatedly is just contributing to the problem. Private companies should not be the de facto moderators of free speech in our society. They are forced into that position by woefully inadequate governance by legal authorities operating multiple decades behind the current lands…

I'm basically happy right now with private companies being the de facto moderator of speech because your alternative of government censorship is unacceptably risky to people's freedoms, and private companies are doing a decent enough job at it as is.
Post reply on HN