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Blocking Kiwifarms

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Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#591

Post by more_corn »

xupybd wrote: post #519
notatoad wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>rather than free speech i encourage anybody who is calls themselves a "free speech advocate" to consider what kiwifarms has been doing to "free speech". their intimidation campaigns have been doing a lot more to harm the cause of free speech than this decision by cloudflare is. if you really believe in free speech, you understand that trans people deserve free speech too, and kiwifarms harrasment campaigns have been…

Free speech is about giving people the freedom to say things I find disgusting. It's about giving each individual the choice to listen to what ever influence they wish. It takes the the power of ideas and elevates them above physical force.

But it doesn’t extend to advocating for violence. We can rightly enact limits on inciting violence.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#592

Post by htk »

convery wrote: post #518
htk wrote: post #471

Let me see if I get this right, they were not hosting KF, they are blocking them via other services like DNS etc?

They provided DDoS protection, and thus replaced what content was served through that. KF dot ru is still up because that uses DDoS-Guard.

Got it. interesting how they didn't just drop them as customers instead of making a big opinionated deal.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#593

Post by sorenjan »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #499
initplus wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kiwifarms should have been dealt with by the traditional legal system years ago. It is honestly shocking to me that the operator has never been charged. The site has been engaging in mass harassment for years and is responsible for multiple suicides. When the legal system fails, people turn to vigilante justice, and we get this mess instead. People feel so strongly that Kiwifarms should be taken offline that they eng…

> and is responsible for multiple suicides. I've suffered some cases of extreme, acute depression in my life, and I was lucky that I had some support that prevented my depression from killing me. That said, I'm really uncomfortable with the language that somebody else can be, as you put it, "responsible" for someone's suicide. One of the things that is really driven home in therapy for depression (that is, after you'…

With all due respect, that may be true in most cases and a good message to receive for most people in therapy, but it's not true in all cases. As has been shown time and time again, humans are very receptive to propaganda and brain washing, and there's only so much harassment a person can take. A "regular" person might need to hear that the world doesn't have an agenda against you, that you're responsible for your actions, and if there's something about your life that you don't like you can take action to change it. But if there's an actual campaign against you, that advice no longer holds, and eventually that kind of harassment can definitively drive somebody to suicide. The only time I've heard of Kiwi Farms before today was when Near committed suicide. There's plenty written about the tragic event, but you can start with their goodby thread on Twitter: https://twitter.com/near_koukai/status/1408940057235312640?s...

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#594

Post by the_only_law »

systemvoltage wrote: post #583
eastdakota wrote: post #391

Reading over the comments I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not. It’s about what in the US you’d call “due process” and in all the rest of the world you’d call “rule of law.” Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be…

Will you also ban violent threats from the left to Andy Ngo? He has been thoroughly documenting it. And published a NYT bestseller “Unmasked”, a written account of how violence from the extreme left is being ignored. I’d like to see equal treatment, that’s the least worst option. I want extreme objectivity at the highest level. Edit: I’m questioning OBJECTIVITY and Andy Ngo is just a fucking example. Find some hypoth…

Which specific sites that Cloudfare hosts or provides services to would you like to see cut off, y’know for equal treatment.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#596

Post by Cyberdog »

jacooper wrote: post #444
throwaway932022 wrote: post #250

The admin of kiwifarms has posted the following in response: >I am so full of hate for this situation. I try to write down my thoughts and I find myself unable to focus on one thing I hate the most. The person committing crimes to frame my community, or the sex pest who groom little boys, or the journalists who outright lie, or the corporate cowardice responsibility for the fragile state of the Internet. >It is all s…

Says the man who told the NZ police that their country is a shit hole because they asked him for details about the Christchurch terrorist, and he confirmed the he reposted the video and the "manifesto" of the terrorist. https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/owner-of-christchurch-s...

No post body was provided.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#597

Post by notch656a »

thebradbain wrote: post #561
Cyberdog wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. > That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be the ones making that call, and no one else who should was stepping up in spite of being aware of the threat. This is the logic of vigilantes. I'm not saying what you have done is on the same leve…

KF can (and does) say whatever they want. That does not give its users the right to doxx an individual or threaten them or otherwise illegally harass them via extra-judicial measures. It’s that simple. It’s also in Cloudflare’s very own terms of service that KF agreed to when they signed up

Are you sure "doxxing" is illegal in all US jurisdictions, as well as the jurisdiction it is hosted in? If it's for the purpose of harassments it may be illegal. Remember California DOJ released (doxxed) online the name and address of all California CCW holders, including judges and other sensitive holders (DV victims, etc). At least California seems to think it's peachy.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#598

Post by frickenhamster »

ffwszgf wrote: post #53

Cloudflare can do whatever it wants but I wish they were honest about it. The claim that there has been some “dangerous escalation” in the past 2 weeks is nonsense. If anything the owner has been monitoring the thread more proactively and making sure people follow the law. This is included not allowing the creation of new accounts and reminding everyone that their data will be turned over to the authorities should it…

After hearing about the drama and reading kf's pov, I can definitely understand why the people ddosing kf want it down. The stuff they do is illegal and absolutely vile but overlooked by the people in power because it suits their politics. It scares me as a prospective parent.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#599

Post by dillondoyle »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #486

I think a lot of people in the comments don't understand what Kiwifarms is. I say this as someone who occasionally browses there and gets some (admittedly sick) enjoyment from it: the main draw of the website is a place for people to get together and bully mentally ill "weirdos". It's not just about people posting offensive shit in their own little corner of the internet - what happens there spreads out, by design, i…

What specifically makes their victims 'weirdos' and why do you feel the need to comment that you get off to 'watching people do fucked up shit for internet clout'

That's exactly what you are doing right now.

They target trans women like Lizzy Waite and Clara Sorrenti.

And gay children...

What is so weird about kids who need support from the Trevor Project hotline?

Being queer is not a mental illness.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#600

Post by joecool1029 »

xupybd wrote: post #512
joecool1029 wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Our decision today Your decision today. You took ownership before for the arbitrary decisions to remove DS and 8Chan, take ownership now and do not try to backpedal. You are Cloudflare's leader. >That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be the ones making that call, and no one else who should was stepping up in spite of being aware of the threat. You failed to take ownership of this issue…

It's not an infrastructures job to enforce morality outside of the law. That is a dangerous place to get to. Due process has incredible value. It allows us to live free lives while also punishing and preventing crimes.

I can't even view the US Constitution [1] when my IP is on DigitalOcean (most of the time). Kiwifarms was perfectly accessible from the same connection last night. It's ironic talking about 'due process' when I can't even browse the highest law in the land due to this company.

[1] https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/

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