Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 307 posts

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#31

Post by fdsfdsafdsafd »

geodel wrote: post #25
gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

People should try to reconcile the facts that those outrageously high FAANG salaries occurs because of 1) Near monopoly in that sector 2) Excessive surveillance and tracking users 3) Increasing inequality between haves and have nots. And non-FAANG type IT worker are also paid relatively high at the cost of other workers living perilous lives. So unless Europeans really start cherishing these "values". They are not go…

Your post has a misunderstanding of basic economics. The high salaries of FAANG are not at "the cost of everyone else"

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#32

Post by kareemsabri »

geodel wrote: post #25
gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

People should try to reconcile the facts that those outrageously high FAANG salaries occurs because of 1) Near monopoly in that sector 2) Excessive surveillance and tracking users 3) Increasing inequality between haves and have nots. And non-FAANG type IT worker are also paid relatively high at the cost of other workers living perilous lives. So unless Europeans really start cherishing these "values". They are not go…

Can you explain how paying software engineers higher salaries means other people need to live "perilous lives". You could just lower your EBIDTA a bit. Software engineers in the US aren't rich because of janitors being underpaid or something.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#33

Post by CobaltFire »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #4

I don't want any of this in a car. I want analog/tactile nobs, zero connectivity, and at most a power cable and holder to plug in a smart phone. Anyone left that provides this?

I drive a Mercedes-Benz Metris and it’s exactly that.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#34

Post by jws »

amluto wrote: post #22
gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

> But ("FSD" excepted) they spend more of their attention on what really matters: treating their vehicle as a modern electronic device. Yet even Tesla does a rather bad job at this — they consider it to be a modern electronic device and ignore the wheels. OTA updates regularly change the UI in a way that is difficult and dangerous to learn when the wheels are spinning. Even when familiar with it, the very basics are…

It is well worth any Tesla driver's time to spend two minutes reading the list of voice commands. Once you have a grip on the vocabulary and structure you can just tell the car to do what you want for dozens of common tasks. (Hint: It's a "seat warmer", not a "butt heater".)

That's the good news, the bad news is that I still haven't figure out how to turn off the stupid cowbell when I accidentally bonk the right lever too many times. If I die in a car accident, 50-50 chance it will be because I was trying to stop the stupid cow bell. I wonder how often they run a query on post accident telemetry to see if the cowbell was on.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#35

Post by gumby »

chrisseaton wrote: post #27
geodel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should try to reconcile the facts that those outrageously high FAANG salaries occurs because of 1) Near monopoly in that sector 2) Excessive surveillance and tracking users 3) Increasing inequality between haves and have nots. And non-FAANG type IT worker are also paid relatively high at the cost of other workers living perilous lives. So unless Europeans really start cherishing these "values". They are not go…

Five separate companies cannot be described as having a meaningful monopoly between them. And there are hundreds of companies that pay at that level in the US, not just FAANG. Reality is European workers are under-paid, not US workers over-paid. Also curious what you think is different in Australia? Are software salaries there like in the US and above somewhere like London?

> Reality is European workers are under-paid, not US workers over-paid.

My point was that European workers are paid in proportion to how they are valued by their employer. If they wrote transformational software their employer wouldn't understand its value and it would either just be shipped without a lot of thought, or ignored. Come to think of it this may be why so much great open source software comes out of Europe.

If European companies threatened by the digital transition realized their looming doom and actually decided to do something about it, the salaries would rise as a consequence.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#36

Post by tibbydudeza »

dependsontheq wrote: post #8

I wouldn't call it "woes". I have been driving an VW ID 3 since last year, it runs their custom Android OS System and should have all of the latest features. It has been quite an experience. The car is fine, basic driving functions are fine, even the driver assist features are generally fine if they are running. The software running all the displays and the "augmented" heads up display is ridiculous. The car one did…

"leave the car with all smart keys, go at least 50 meters from the car, wait for 15 minutes"

Some engineer actually coded for this - LOL.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#37

Post by [deleted] »

762236 wrote: post #16
mixmastamyk wrote: post #4

I don't want any of this in a car. I want analog/tactile nobs, zero connectivity, and at most a power cable and holder to plug in a smart phone. Anyone left that provides this?

I wish that car reviewers would do their job and be critical. They rarely mention how bad the modern cars are becoming.

[deleted]

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#38

Post by geodel »

ceeplusplus wrote: post #29
geodel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should try to reconcile the facts that those outrageously high FAANG salaries occurs because of 1) Near monopoly in that sector 2) Excessive surveillance and tracking users 3) Increasing inequality between haves and have nots. And non-FAANG type IT worker are also paid relatively high at the cost of other workers living perilous lives. So unless Europeans really start cherishing these "values". They are not go…

> And non-FAANG type IT worker are also paid relatively high at the cost of other workers living perilous lives. Those workers live perilous lives because cities refuse to build enough housing, not because a few workers have it good. > those outrageously high FAANG salaries occurs because of 4) Much more generous VC funding leading to more competition between firms for SWEs, as a result of a more risk seeking / risk…

> SWEs at companies like Walmart Labs make much more than SWEs in Europe.

Good. Find out how Walmart retail workers are doing. And Housing in US is lot cheaper for majority of people.

> ... risk tolerant culture with stronger work ethic

Yup, from Uber to Wework and dozen more food delivery service did awesome job with generous money in creating enduring businesses with strong work ethics.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#39

Post by gumby »

geodel wrote: post #25
gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

People should try to reconcile the facts that those outrageously high FAANG salaries occurs because of 1) Near monopoly in that sector 2) Excessive surveillance and tracking users 3) Increasing inequality between haves and have nots. And non-FAANG type IT worker are also paid relatively high at the cost of other workers living perilous lives. So unless Europeans really start cherishing these "values". They are not go…

> those outrageously high FAANG salaries occurs because of ... 2) Excessive surveillance...

This is an absurd and lazy take.

There are plenty of high paying software jobs in the US that have nothing to do with surveillance (e.g. the AWS part of Amazon, Apple, SpaceX, all sorts of robotics companies, etc).

Europe's concerns in this area are a strength that they should be taking advantage of.

FWIW I think the surveillance itself is lazy. People just collect stuff because it's cheap to do, but the evidence that it is that useful in most cases is scant. If the FTC took a reasonable position that just having that info is a liability to be managed, most companies would stop and their businesses would do fine.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#40

Post by gumby »

jws wrote: post #34
amluto wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But ("FSD" excepted) they spend more of their attention on what really matters: treating their vehicle as a modern electronic device. Yet even Tesla does a rather bad job at this — they consider it to be a modern electronic device and ignore the wheels. OTA updates regularly change the UI in a way that is difficult and dangerous to learn when the wheels are spinning. Even when familiar with it, the very basics are…

It is well worth any Tesla driver's time to spend two minutes reading the list of voice commands. Once you have a grip on the vocabulary and structure you can just tell the car to do what you want for dozens of common tasks. (Hint: It's a "seat warmer", not a "butt heater".) That's the good news, the bad news is that I still haven't figure out how to turn off the stupid cowbell when I accidentally bonk the right leve…

> (Hint: It's a "seat warmer", not a "butt heater".)

File a bug report. Clearly there is insufficient personalization.

Post reply on HN