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Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

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Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#11
Producing really good software is really hard.

Here's a tip for all the backwards big companies in Europe: pay your software engineers a lot more. Whatever you're paying now, increase it by 2x-3x. If you want the best, you're going to have to pay for it, or you're going to suffer the predictably mediocre results indefinitely (to the benefit of Tesla & Co.; Tesla's sales are now up to $67 billion; that's closing in on the size of BMW's consumer auto division).

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#12

I don't want any of this in a car. I want analog/tactile nobs, zero connectivity, and at most a power cable and holder to plug in a smart phone. Anyone left that provides this?

I believe new Mazdas come with no direct connectivity and have no touchscreens. You can still connect your Android Auto or CarPlay device though, and control it with a knob. It is the balance I like. I don't own one (yet).

Got a Mazda3 this year and the "no bullshit" infotainment stack was a huge selling point for me. Airplay integration using a knob is a little wonky in places (primarily interacting with maps), but I consider it a feature not a bug because I basically don't do any interaction I can't do via voice commands. Physical buttons for all climate etc, not a capacitive "button" to be found in the car.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#13

I wouldn't call it "woes". I have been driving an VW ID 3 since last year, it runs their custom Android OS System and should have all of the latest features. It has been quite an experience. The car is fine, basic driving functions are fine, even the driver assist features are generally fine if they are running. The software running all the displays and the "augmented" heads up display is ridiculous. The car one did…

Some of the bugs and ergonomics problem you describe seem dangerous. The regulators should come in and ban those cars until they are fixed.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#14

I don't want any of this in a car. I want analog/tactile nobs, zero connectivity, and at most a power cable and holder to plug in a smart phone. Anyone left that provides this?

New Dacia cars fit the bill and they use modern Renault drivetrains under license. Funnily they get poor safety ratings because they don't include many electronic driving aids (lol)

Their structural safety is great.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#15
I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry.

Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important

Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just computers with wheels I was briefly involved in a software project at $SERIOUS_GERMAN_CAR_COMPANY. Mechanically their cars were outstanding -- I still drive this company's cars today. This project was some cool "by wire" stuff, all modeled in Matlab, just as the ECU code was. But it was clear that the mechanical guys were the top of the pyramid; the safety guys were all mechanical engineers with some programming experience. All the user-visible electronics (radio, controls, etc) was subbed out to a low-price bidder because "who cares about that stuff anyway?". This wasn't VW, but I have some family exposure to VW specifically and that mentality still comes through deeply: electronics are added to the vehicle, not integral. The mental and organizational rewiring will be very hard. These are not companies who believe you should "eat your own lunch before someone else comes and eats it for you". The long institutional problems seen in yesterday's post about Nokia and the "Burning Platform" memo are pervasive throughout Europe (and most places, including a lot of USA): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32698044

You see this in the salaries. Sure, take-home salaries in the EU are lower than US ones in across the board, but the delta in the high value professions is extreme and quite telling. My son's partner's parents in Europe are offended by what Amazon pays him in the US because "he just works in IT". Well, he's a developer in their highest revenue area, so Amazon think it's worth investing in. Tesla cars ship with all sorts of fit and finish bugs, and are above average in mechanical problems. But ("FSD" excepted) they spend more of their attention on what really matters: treating their vehicle as a modern electronic device. But the European car companies are still stuck in the mid 20th century and make the opposite branch cut. The rest of European industry is the same.

Andreeson wrote "Software is eating the world" 11 years ago. Apparently nobody on the continent of Europe has read it. Sure, software is considered important, but it's just another part of the BOM, not something strategic.

IMHO the only countries that really understand software at both a technical and business value add level are US, AUS, Canada, China, with India less so but in that group and Japan just barely getting in. Pretty damning.

FWIW I've worked in France and Germany (and non-European countries), including some car business, but most of my career has been in the Valley (starting 38 years ago). I am not from Europe or USA so in that sense I don't have a preference for either side. I prefer living in Europe but vastly prefer to work in the US.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#16

I don't want any of this in a car. I want analog/tactile nobs, zero connectivity, and at most a power cable and holder to plug in a smart phone. Anyone left that provides this?

I wish that car reviewers would do their job and be critical. They rarely mention how bad the modern cars are becoming.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#17

I wouldn't call it "woes". I have been driving an VW ID 3 since last year, it runs their custom Android OS System and should have all of the latest features. It has been quite an experience. The car is fine, basic driving functions are fine, even the driver assist features are generally fine if they are running. The software running all the displays and the "augmented" heads up display is ridiculous. The car one did…

I've been driving a 27-year-old Range Rover for a year. Sometimes I need to hold the ignition key close to the receiver in the rear window for it to lock. Sometimes I need to jiggle the steering lock a little for the flappy door to close and tell it the key is out, before it will lock. Sometimes I need to poke the "petrol flap" button a couple of times before the flap will open.

Sometimes the radio doesn't really get a good signal on Radio 4 and I need to press the SEEK button on the steering wheel.

The dashboard displays were fuzzy and hard-to-read, but I wiped the dust off and they were fine. They did go totally dark once when I was fiddling with the brightness control, but I turned them back on.

It has never need rebooted. It has never forgotten how to be fuelled up. It has never just turned off all its electronics at speed on the motorway. The UI doesn't show any information beyond speed, engine RPM, coolant temperature and fuel level, unless there's some sort of fault indication up.

I am really not convinced about buying a modern car.

(My last car was also a 27-year-old Range Rover, which I still have)

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#18

I don't want any of this in a car. I want analog/tactile nobs, zero connectivity, and at most a power cable and holder to plug in a smart phone. Anyone left that provides this?

This is exactly what I want. I think there’s a huge, untapped market for an electric car with minimal software. A car that doesn’t need software updates and doesn’t track you.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#19

I wouldn't call it "woes". I have been driving an VW ID 3 since last year, it runs their custom Android OS System and should have all of the latest features. It has been quite an experience. The car is fine, basic driving functions are fine, even the driver assist features are generally fine if they are running. The software running all the displays and the "augmented" heads up display is ridiculous. The car one did…

I just bought a Subaru after a week renting a Porsche Macan through Turo. It’s wild how unintuitive the Porsche interface was. It was ugly, it felt cheap and it was distracting to boot.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#20

Producing really good software is really hard. Here's a tip for all the backwards big companies in Europe: pay your software engineers a lot more. Whatever you're paying now, increase it by 2x-3x. If you want the best, you're going to have to pay for it, or you're going to suffer the predictably mediocre results indefinitely (to the benefit of Tesla & Co.; Tesla's sales are now up to $67 billion; that's closing in on…

Not just the software, so many cars don't even have a functional touchscreen while requiring use of it for many core features. Hyundai for example like to use really low quality touch screens that are even slower than my old Nokia's resistive display. What is the point of pan-and-zoom in a GPS maps app if the screen can barely keep up in real-time?
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