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In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

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Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#81

Post by pkrotich »

cs702 wrote: post #5

By all measures, this is due to the kind of neglect and mismanagement one would expect to see in an underdeveloped or war-torn country, not in a city inside a state that is part of the most powerful country on earth. And Jackson is the state's largest city and as well as its capital ! It must be so embarrassing for the politicians who have been running Mississippi. They've done a truly terrible, horrible job on this.

I guess your idea of America is from movies - immigrated here 24 years ago from a so called third-world country and I can tell you it’s rather unsettling when you see the bowels of America especially in the southern parts (I live in Louisiana).

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#82

Post by Buttons840 »

scifibestfi wrote: post #14

Does anyone else feel like all of our institutions are crumbling in real time? And to the degree they still work is a product of momentum?

As wealth inequality grows in our capitalist society, I worry the common people simply wont control enough wealth to have their concerns considered. The common people do have the ability to vote, but more and more votes are bought with money and divisive advertising.

The bottom 50% of American's control 2% of the nations wealth. Helping the plebs simply isn't going to be profitable. All that to say, yes, I worry about crumbling institutions.

I first thought about this while considering the rise of SaaS software. Software sold with a one-time cost, an honest transaction, is dying. Perhaps common people simply don't control enough wealth to make honest software worth while. Instead, companies want our data they can sell to other wealthy entities. "Common people are out there, they don't possess any wealth to speak of, but we can spy on them and sell the data to other wealthy people."

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#83

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jamroom wrote: post #29
systemvoltage wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are the people that have been running the city: - (D) Harvey Johnson Jr. [2009-2013] - (D) Chokwe Lumumba [2013-2014] - (D) Charles Tillman [2014] - (D) Tony Yarber [2014-2017] - (D) Chokwe Lumumba [2017-Present] From the article: > “No one is taking responsibility” for the crisis, she said. “You have the governor and the mayor blaming each other. They just keep going back and forth. Both of them knew the water…

From the NYT article it looks like the state legislature holds the purse strings on any federal funds that might help: "the State of Mississippi received $75 million to upgrade drinking water systems across the state, with an additional $429 million coming available over the next five years. But that money is in the hands of the state Legislature, not Jackson officials."

> the State of Mississippi received $75 million to upgrade drinking water systems across the state

$75mm is about Jackson, Mississippi’s annual tax take, not including $40mm for sewers and water [1]. Apparently they need $2bn to modernise their water infrastructure [2]. Financing that at 8% is about $160mm a year in interest alone; unaffordable.

This reeks of overbuilding. The solution has to involve reducing the infrastructure footprint.

[1] https://www.jacksonms.gov/meetings/presentation-of-fy-2021-2...

[2] https://www.npr.org/2022/08/31/1120166328/jackson-mississipp...

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#84

Post by [deleted] »

agrajag wrote: post #48
theropost wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as we like to blame government, and politicians - at the end of the day, ll... We are the government. We are the politicians. We are the inept, lazy society who has let it come to this. We are the ones fighting amongst ourselves, unable to converse and work with opposing viewpoints.

You're assuming that the people of Jackson have a voice in their government. The city is majority black, and in Mississippi that's more enough than enough reason for the rest of the state elected representitives to reject any aid to the city.

[deleted]

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#85

Post by spaniard89277 »

scifibestfi wrote: post #77
parkingrift wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying this for the last 50 years.

They were right, but didn't realize how long momentum can last. 51 years ago was 1971. https://wtfhappenedin1971.com

So what happened?

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#86

Post by didgetmaster »

It really just boils down to priorities. Politicians at all levels (local, state, federal) seem to always have money available for their personal pet projects but can't seem to find money for basic necessities like water, roads, safety, etc..

I lived a couple years in a small town just outside of Jackson. Going into the city never felt safe. You had to even look over your shoulder while golfing at the local course while wondering when you might get mugged.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#87

Post by seanmcdirmid »

School-Cotton wrote: post #7
cs702 wrote: post #5

By all measures, this is due to the kind of neglect and mismanagement one would expect to see in an underdeveloped or war-torn country, not in a city inside a state that is part of the most powerful country on earth. And Jackson is the state's largest city and as well as its capital ! It must be so embarrassing for the politicians who have been running Mississippi. They've done a truly terrible, horrible job on this.

> not in a city inside a state that is part of the most powerful country on earth Why not? There are plenty of ecological catastrophes in China and were in the Soviet Union when it existed. I suspect “powerful” isn’t exactly the variable you’re trying to describe, and you actually mean something like “most developed”. But stories like this prove that the US indeed isn’t the most developed country in the world.

Whenever there is a heavy rain in one of China's cities (e.g. Beijing or Wuhan), the whole city simply floods...like up to your head. It took a country like Japan to dig huge drainage tunnels to figure out how to avoid that problem in that region (so I would conclude, Japan is the most powerful country if judged solely by infrastructure quality).

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#88

Post by afterburner »

boeingUH60 wrote: post #45

Where I reside..what you’ll call a third-world country (Nigeria), everyone who builds a home digs their personal water borehole and sewage system because our government is too incompetent to maintain city-wide infrastructure. I’ve always thought it would be much better if we can get centralized systems for these things as they do in developed countries, but I’m pretty sure this is the type of thing we would see regul…

Majority black town in the poorest state in the union, which is also a Republican state.

That's no coincidence. EDIT: as in the town is being intentionally poorly maintained by the rest of the state.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#89

Post by MichaelCollins »

boeingUH60 wrote: post #45

Where I reside..what you’ll call a third-world country (Nigeria), everyone who builds a home digs their personal water borehole and sewage system because our government is too incompetent to maintain city-wide infrastructure. I’ve always thought it would be much better if we can get centralized systems for these things as they do in developed countries, but I’m pretty sure this is the type of thing we would see regul…

A bit more than 1 in 10 Americans don't get their water from a communal source; most of them have their own wells. And about 1 in 5 American households have septic tanks instead of connections to sewers.

This is mostly due to people living in rural areas. Even with all the money in the world, why would you lay a 10 mile sewer line for half a dozen people instead of digging some septic tanks?

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#90

Post by abernard1 »

mjmahone17 wrote: post #56
sokoloff wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a city water department that has failed, not a state facility. Those in charge should be ashamed, indeed, but that shame is at a city level as far as I can tell.

In the US states tend to have the most power. The federal government can coax states by offering more money (for instance, funding 90% of highway projects), but can’t usually force states to take any specific action. There are exceptions but in general, if you want an action to happen the state needs to be OK with it. Cities may have a lot of autonomy or almost no autonomy, depending on the specific state and city. I…

In the US, cities tend to run their municipal water systems. That's why they're called municipal.

You're welcome.

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