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In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

washingtonpost.com

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Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#71

Post by tremon »

theropost wrote: post #10
cs702 wrote: post #5

By all measures, this is due to the kind of neglect and mismanagement one would expect to see in an underdeveloped or war-torn country, not in a city inside a state that is part of the most powerful country on earth. And Jackson is the state's largest city and as well as its capital ! It must be so embarrassing for the politicians who have been running Mississippi. They've done a truly terrible, horrible job on this.

As much as we like to blame government, and politicians - at the end of the day, ll... We are the government. We are the politicians. We are the inept, lazy society who has let it come to this. We are the ones fighting amongst ourselves, unable to converse and work with opposing viewpoints.

No post body was provided.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#72

Post by hosh »

boeingUH60 wrote: post #45

Where I reside..what you’ll call a third-world country (Nigeria), everyone who builds a home digs their personal water borehole and sewage system because our government is too incompetent to maintain city-wide infrastructure. I’ve always thought it would be much better if we can get centralized systems for these things as they do in developed countries, but I’m pretty sure this is the type of thing we would see regul…

Having better local sources of water and treatment may turn out to he a better idea than centralized water treatment.

Here in the US, water is pumped (often uphill) and purified to drinking water standards, only for 70% of residential water used for watering green lawns. Those lawns are usually grown in a way where soil microbes are killed off, water retention capability are reduced (so it needs more water), and the lawn is excessively cut and fertilized in order preserve an aesthetic. Being able to waste land and water resources like that is a typical signal of wealth. Personally for me, signaling wealth by wasting resources is not a characteristic that is admirable for me.

Better water management can include multiple rounds of circulating greywater to support food-bearing perennials, and on-site or perhaps, neighborhood level treatment of water.

So it may turn out that, if you look beyond the modern West as if it is the pinnacle of civilization, you can skip the mistakes and develop something better for your country and your local community.

EDIT: this 10 min video shows the basic principles for onsite greywater and blackwater harvesting: https://youtu.be/f-sRcVkZ9yg

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#73

Post by anyonecancode »

sokoloff wrote: post #17
cs702 wrote: post #5

By all measures, this is due to the kind of neglect and mismanagement one would expect to see in an underdeveloped or war-torn country, not in a city inside a state that is part of the most powerful country on earth. And Jackson is the state's largest city and as well as its capital ! It must be so embarrassing for the politicians who have been running Mississippi. They've done a truly terrible, horrible job on this.

This is a city water department that has failed, not a state facility. Those in charge should be ashamed, indeed, but that shame is at a city level as far as I can tell.

In the US, states and the federal government are the legal and political actors. Counties, cities, and other sub-state levels of government only have power to the extent that the state allows for. Cities are literally creatures of their state, not independent political entities within a state.

Of course those in city government have a duty to run the city government as well as they are able, but it's worth keeping in mind that cities can be supported or hobbled in that according to the desires of the state. Even states where city and state are nominally part of the same political faction, there is often tension -- c.f. NYC and NY state.

If the city and state are run by opposing political factions, things can get pretty tough for a city. Add in race, and that gets even worse. majority black, majority Democratic city in a majority Republican, majority white state is going to have a tough time.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#75

Post by thro388 »

boeingUH60 wrote: post #45

Where I reside..what you’ll call a third-world country (Nigeria), everyone who builds a home digs their personal water borehole and sewage system because our government is too incompetent to maintain city-wide infrastructure. I’ve always thought it would be much better if we can get centralized systems for these things as they do in developed countries, but I’m pretty sure this is the type of thing we would see regul…

In Lagos (capital) there were public toilets, and public water taps, and mobile cisterns with drinkable water even in slums. Goverment is not going to risk outbreak of cholera!

I live in Central Europe, private wells and septics are pretty common here in smaller villages.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#76

Post by seanmcdirmid »

nradov wrote: post #31
hollywood_court wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Us Southerners love to shoot ourselves in the foot. We do it every single election cycle and then make disparaging remarks about states like California.

California does certain things better, but we also manage to burn down half the state every summer. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/california-wildfires-grow-... Today we're in the middle of a power shortage, to the extent that EV owners are asked not to charge their cars. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/california-electric-vehic... Some small towns have literally run out of water. https://calmatters.org/califor…

> but we also manage to burn down half the state every summer.

That's an exaggeration, and the drought has been really bad for the last few years.

> Today we're in the middle of a power shortage, to the extent that EV owners are asked not to charge their cars[*].

[*] Between 4 and 9PM.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#77

Post by scifibestfi »

parkingrift wrote: post #63
scifibestfi wrote: post #14

Does anyone else feel like all of our institutions are crumbling in real time? And to the degree they still work is a product of momentum?

People have been saying this for the last 50 years.

They were right, but didn't realize how long momentum can last.

51 years ago was 1971.

https://wtfhappenedin1971.com

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#78

Post by forrestthewoods »

bradleyjg wrote: post #47
jamroom wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the NYT article it looks like the state legislature holds the purse strings on any federal funds that might help: "the State of Mississippi received $75 million to upgrade drinking water systems across the state, with an additional $429 million coming available over the next five years. But that money is in the hands of the state Legislature, not Jackson officials."

> on any federal funds that might help Why do they have to be federal funds? Mississippi is a poor state within the US but if you look at global comparisons it has a robust tax base. There’s no reason it needs to depend on federal largesse for the basics. It just needs better governance.

> Why do they have to be federal funds?

Federal/state/local tax revenue is split about 54/27/19. The US federal deficit is another 19% on-top of that.

For whatever reasons, good or bad, the US funnels tax dollars through the Federal level. They're basically a middle man. Which means large projects almost always require some Federal funding.

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#79

Post by 8note »

bradleyjg wrote: post #47
jamroom wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the NYT article it looks like the state legislature holds the purse strings on any federal funds that might help: "the State of Mississippi received $75 million to upgrade drinking water systems across the state, with an additional $429 million coming available over the next five years. But that money is in the hands of the state Legislature, not Jackson officials."

> on any federal funds that might help Why do they have to be federal funds? Mississippi is a poor state within the US but if you look at global comparisons it has a robust tax base. There’s no reason it needs to depend on federal largesse for the basics. It just needs better governance.

Does Jackson have that tax base though? My understanding is that the wealth is just outside of the city borders

Re: In Jackson, Mississippi, a water crisis of unparalleled scale

#80

Post by systemvoltage »

hollywood_court wrote: post #52
nradov wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California does certain things better, but we also manage to burn down half the state every summer. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/california-wildfires-grow-... Today we're in the middle of a power shortage, to the extent that EV owners are asked not to charge their cars. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/california-electric-vehic... Some small towns have literally run out of water. https://calmatters.org/califor…

I am not arguing that California does anything better, but it’s odd hearing Southerners complaining about California whilst also reaping the rewards of California’s success. We receive a great deal of money from California and we don’t use that money responsibly. And then we disparage California. It’s so strange.

As a Californian, I've been pretty disappointed by the efficiency of our government and the amount of corruption here. Infrastructure is collapsing. It is not a good idea to not criticize your own local and state government, I really don't give a shit what people of Alabama think about California. We need to get our collective heads out of the blue vs red game and just look at the facts of how governments are running. Used to be that local newspapers were popular, not anymore. No one is watching.

For the amount of taxes I pay, I expect way more from our governments. California should have cities that look like Zurich, not SF and LA.

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