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A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

theguardian.com

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Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#21

Post by nashashmi »

uxcolumbo wrote: post #8

I feel for this little girl - for losing her friend. I think if more parents would explain to kids where meat comes from most would react like Indie-Rose - another little kid[0] - who said: "I don't want to chop up animal people" And there are so many more kids realizing on their own what they are eating. They don't want to eat Peppa the pig & friends and yet we (mostly) force them to eat them. And there are so many…

You premise is kids don't want to eat animals but we force them to eat it. And they don't realize what that is.

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#22

Post by JumpCrisscross »

superchroma wrote: post #10
vogt wrote: post #6

Look, I’m an animal lover and what a nightmare for that little girl, but I don’t think that her parents did her any favors by not preparing her mentally for what was to come. The animals being sold at auction is part and parcel of the 4H experience, or many families will opt to have the animal slaughtered themselves. It sounds like they brought this goat to auction where it was sold and then tried to re-neg on the sa…

I think, in life, sometimes we just don't quite think things through. You're busy, preoccupied, whatever. You don't get all the facts and just assume the best. You get to the auction and realize your daughter loves the goat a lot. You don't spend all day in an analytical mode, anticipating the worst cases, and then things happen and it's then too late to act. It's like being careless where you park your nice car and…

> or we can advocate for change and try to be more patient, kind and accepting, and, I think, I would like to advocate the latter

4-H auctions finance the programme. If the auctions become unreliable because parents couldn’t bother to identify an attachment early and message their intent to renegotiate a contract until right before the auction, the programme is threatened. It’s also baffling the parents didn’t try to buy the goat off the purchaser, its lawful owner, instead of asking the venue to void a contract. (EDIT: It appears they did and the buyer said they were fine reversing the contract. Nobody did anything to document this, however, and the family taking the goat home after the auction prejudiced them.)

It’s also against the pathos of the programme? Knowing you’re raising livestock is the point.

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#23

Post by pigbearpig »

Completely unnecessary, a lot of adults had a chance to stop and think but they didn’t. How about we don’t hold 10-year old 4-H members to contracts (pretty sure they can’t anyway). Why are Sheriff deputies jumping on a case like this. Maybe the parents should not have let it get that far to be auctioned off, seems like they would have know before that their daughter considered it a pet.

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#24

Post by JumpCrisscross »

411111111111111 wrote: post #17
vogt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goat became property of the new owner when it was sold at auction, which the family knew they were getting into. I hate defending someone who clearly was being an asshole in this situation by not having the heart to say “This little girl is clearly attached, I can simply buy another goat”, but there were no rights being violated here that I see.

Sure, they probably had a previous agreement assuring the auction, but it wasn't the police's job to make that decision. They're the executive, not the judicative. A judge would've had to make this assertion, which clearly didn't happen as they didn't have a warrant. The officers still drove all over the state into a different jurisdiction (while using taxpayers money). They likely could've gotten the goat without ma…

> it wasn't the police's job to make that decision

If my car is stolen and I see it in someone’s garage, I absolutely expect the police to do something about it. In this case, the facts about lawful ownership were straightforward.

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#25

Post by kurupt213 »

johnklos wrote: post #12
vogt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goat became property of the new owner when it was sold at auction, which the family knew they were getting into. I hate defending someone who clearly was being an asshole in this situation by not having the heart to say “This little girl is clearly attached, I can simply buy another goat”, but there were no rights being violated here that I see.

Cops extrajudicially confiscating property isn't violating rights? Have someone try it on you and see whether you still think that. Cops in the US get off on forcing their will on others.

Police unilaterally recover stolen property all the time.

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#26

Post by kurupt213 »

DanBC wrote: post #16
vogt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goat became property of the new owner when it was sold at auction, which the family knew they were getting into. I hate defending someone who clearly was being an asshole in this situation by not having the heart to say “This little girl is clearly attached, I can simply buy another goat”, but there were no rights being violated here that I see.

When was the goat sold at auction?

At the fair. It’s part of the showing the animal process. While they are being judged, prospective customers are also evaluating the animals

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#27

Post by joe_guy »

vogt wrote: post #14
johnklos wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cops extrajudicially confiscating property isn't violating rights? Have someone try it on you and see whether you still think that. Cops in the US get off on forcing their will on others.

The parents were the ones who confiscated someone else’s property when the goat was sold. But yeah, I agree, they do, you’re barking up the wrong tree if you think you’re going to stick it to me with ACAB sentiment because I am no fan of the state or police. I am a fan of honoring contracts and sales.

> am a fan of honoring contracts and sales.

It's perfectly acceptable to violate a contract. It doesn't matter you're not a fan of this. As long as you follow through with the terms of violating it.

> Breach of contract is not a crime or even a tort. Punitive damages are generally not an available remedy. The only remedies are to make the non-breaching party whole. The main theory behind this rule is that the law should not punish economically efficient breach.

The contract was not in the article but we can assume that it would be whatever financial compensation would be to make them whole. That's something they offered but the other party kept making threats that they would be criminally charged, even though the article states it was within their rights to not sell the goat.

IANAL but I can't imagine what permitted the police to be involved.

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#28

Post by JumpCrisscross »

alistairSH wrote: post #15
vogt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goat became property of the new owner when it was sold at auction, which the family knew they were getting into. I hate defending someone who clearly was being an asshole in this situation by not having the heart to say “This little girl is clearly attached, I can simply buy another goat”, but there were no rights being violated here that I see.

The way this article reads, goat was confiscated prior to auction.

> goat was confiscated prior to auction

The parents told 4-H they changed their mind right before the auction, but the confiscation happened well after [1].

[1] https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article265138311.html

Re: A girl wanted to keep the goat she raised for a county fair. They killed it

#29

Post by kurupt213 »

uxcolumbo wrote: post #8

I feel for this little girl - for losing her friend. I think if more parents would explain to kids where meat comes from most would react like Indie-Rose - another little kid[0] - who said: "I don't want to chop up animal people" And there are so many more kids realizing on their own what they are eating. They don't want to eat Peppa the pig & friends and yet we (mostly) force them to eat them. And there are so many…

Kids should know where their food comes from and that death is a natural part of life.
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