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Jetbrains Space

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Re: Jetbrains Space

#71

Post by mdaniel »

number6 wrote: post #68
mdaniel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err, you're aware that GitLab is MIT and Space is not even pretending to be open, right? IntelliJ and PyCharm Community are both Apache 2 licensed and are absolutely stellar https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community > (I mean that they're not crippleware, they're outstanding products that just happen to omit Spring, SQL, and Django support from the Apache 2 versions)

I recently bought the Professional Edition of Pycharm after using it for years. The pro features are nice but nothing I missed. Definitely not Crippleware

I also forgot to include "remote executors" in that list for shops that use docker or similar machine learning setups; I can imagine that's a non-trivial market for PyCharm Pro

Re: Jetbrains Space

#72

Post by morelisp »

jen20 wrote: post #48
severino wrote: post #10

Things like the Git hosting provided by this Space thing sounded pretty good for EU-based users, as Jetbrains is a company registered in the Czech Republic. Unfortunately, their FAQ on privacy states that all of the data will be stored in Amazon AWS, so from the privacy perspective this is no improvement over Github or Gitlab.

If you think that Amazon are reading customer data, you are utterly crazy. Privacy is multi dimensional. If the US government wants access to your stuff, all the EU hosting in the world is not going to stop them.

> Privacy is multi dimensional.

> If the US government wants access to your stuff, all the EU hosting in the world is not going to stop them.

These statements are at odds. The first is true, invalidating the second.

If the NSA wants to read my email because they think I'm involved in a terrorist bombing plot, sure, I'm burned on any provider.

If the FBI wants to read my email for pretty much any reason, they'll have to send a warrant which can be addressed in my local court rather than just go through FISA or the CLOUD Act.

If some podunk Texas DA wants to see if I've visited an abortion doctor in France, if the service provider's in the US there's a decent chance for a warrant. If it's in the EU, go pound sand you fuckers.

Re: Jetbrains Space

#73

Post by pjmlp »

ilovecaching wrote: post #22

I find this shift to paid, online code editors and IDEs very dystopian. The last thing I want to do is rely on a proprietary non-free tool that I need internet to access, can not only gather telemetry about my usage, but also all my code… At some point people have to decide that privacy and freedom are more important than some level of convenience. For me that line is already crossed.

Developers have bills to pay and the return to timesharing days seems to be only way to force people to actually pay for the work of others, just like in every other profession.

Indeed, the line has been crossed, free beer is empty.

Re: Jetbrains Space

#74

Post by mdaniel »

wiradikusuma wrote: post #70
mdaniel wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - CI/CD script uses Kotlin DSL, feels "heavy". But hopefully the IDE completion is second to none? My experience with editing .gitlab-ci.yml is that different versions support different features/structures, but GL didn't annotate their file with any such version specifier making it hard on the tooling. I haven't used Space in anger in order to know what that editing experience is like, but I have used the Kotlin ve…

That's what I thought initially (it's just code! autocomplete! using Jetbrains' own tools! But, unless you already know what you're looking for, it's useless. The documentation is very short and lacking examples. So the completion is, well, just for completion. Not good for exploration.

That's incredibly sad to hear; did you open a YouTrack about it? I've had mixed results with their bug triage process, but in my mind if I don't bitch, it's for sure not going to get any attention: https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issues/SPACE

Re: Jetbrains Space

#75

Post by mdaniel »

pjmlp wrote: post #69
mdaniel wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But clion really throws a wrench into that. I was curious what the experience was since (as you pointed out) there's no C/C++ plugin to add to IJ but I thought _surely_ CLion would support their JDK bread and butter, but damn if it doesn't > "*.java files are supported by IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate Try IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate" :-/

JetBrains products are the only Java IDE that doesn't support JNI debugging and development, they rather sell two licenses. Android Studio supports that use case, because Google has gotten so bad feedback from leaving NDK users stranded, that they eventually got an agreement to have Clion plugins as part of Studio.

> they eventually got an agreement to have Clion plugins as part of Studio.

Wow, that sounds huge given that as a paying "all you can eat" user I don't believe that I can even install the CLion plugins. Do you happen to have a link talking about that deal?

Re: Jetbrains Space

#76

Post by mgkimsal »

wiradikusuma wrote: post #36

We use Space due to GitLab's recent pricing changes. We like: - free git hosting - free slack-like with sub-thread - generous CI/CD - built-in issue tracker - built-in wiki - very snappy - has mobile app We don't like: - CI/CD script uses Kotlin DSL, feels "heavy". - Issue tracker very basic, we end up using YouTrack. Still don't know how to integrate it lol. - One project can have multiple repos, but they all share…

I'm unsure why the ability to tie the IDEs with the 'space' issue system is not in place. I've gotten very used to using IntelliJ and PHPStorm contexts relating to issues tied to an issue tracker. There's no connector for 'space', and hasn't been for... over a year? If they're wanting to offer all these items and tie you in to an ecosystem... then tie them together. I'm probably in a minority in using it, but it was the first big WTF I saw when trying to start some new projects with 'space', and just gave up for now. If it's not that important to them after a year... it makes me question their priorities (have been a paying IDE customer for... over 10 years at this point).

Re: Jetbrains Space

#78

Post by dijit »

delusional wrote: post #60
badloginagain wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feels like there's a big race to be the all-in-one everything tool for everything. It's Gitlabs whole schtick, GitHub is moving in that direction, now "also Jetbrains". IMO I think something like Jetbrains should be leaning into integration, not all-in-one. Connective tissue last longer than walled garden.

There's no money in integration. It's very easy to get approval for some big shiny tool with a frontend and 19 different features. It's very difficult to get corporate approval for a tiny integration thing that makes 5 of those features work with some others in a different tool. "Can't you just type it in manually?"

Is that true? A large part of the value add of Asana is that it integrates with everything.

They’re probably the most expensive issue tracking tool (many times the amount we’d pay for Jira), but it’s extremely worthwhile for us so we pay it.

Re: Jetbrains Space

#79

Post by dehrmann »

ilovecaching wrote: post #22

I find this shift to paid, online code editors and IDEs very dystopian. The last thing I want to do is rely on a proprietary non-free tool that I need internet to access, can not only gather telemetry about my usage, but also all my code… At some point people have to decide that privacy and freedom are more important than some level of convenience. For me that line is already crossed.

The only things here that concern a business using the product are price point and if there's an offramp in case it's discontinued. Business are used to paying for tools, have internet connectivity with at least three nines of availability, don't care that a vendor is measuring tool usage, and are satisfied by the contract that says how their code can be used.

Even at an individual level, people were paying for Turbo Pascal in the 80s and 90s.

Re: Jetbrains Space

#80

Post by 41b696ef1113 »

dijit wrote: post #78
delusional wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no money in integration. It's very easy to get approval for some big shiny tool with a frontend and 19 different features. It's very difficult to get corporate approval for a tiny integration thing that makes 5 of those features work with some others in a different tool. "Can't you just type it in manually?"

Is that true? A large part of the value add of Asana is that it integrates with everything. They’re probably the most expensive issue tracking tool (many times the amount we’d pay for Jira), but it’s extremely worthwhile for us so we pay it.

The pain of getting finance to approve recurring charges is quite real.
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