IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power • Hacker News Board

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#561

Post by peoplefromibiza » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

legulere wrote: post #498

concordDance wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actors should be a good match for the role they play. That includes accent, build, height, sex, attractiveness, characterization (Will Smith couldn't play Sauron) and skin colour.

That really depends if those attributes are an important part of the character, how well the actor can fake those (e.g. Hugh Laurie without British accent in house md), and what you want to achieve. Jesus for instance most likely had a bit darker skin, but it makes sense to make him more similar to your target audience, so people can better identify with him.

> Jesus for instance most likely had a bit darker skin, but it makes sense to make him more similar to your target audience

It's a bit more complicated than that.

In most of the paintings you'll find Jesus has a darker skin tone (and hair)

Then in 1940 Warner Sallman’s created the popular light-eyed, light-haired Christ [1], Sallman worked for advertising and marketed the picture worldwide.

[1] https://images.theconversation.com/files/346421/original/fil...

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#562

Post by krapp » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #519

krapp wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's the oldest metaphor in the world >it's light vs darkness, like white magic and black magic. >Heaven is light, hell is darkness. >Nobody sees "the dark at the end of the tunnel". You seem to have confused "the world" for "Christian Europe." There are plenty of cultures in which these metaphors are reversed, or don't exist at all. And the only referent that is relevant to this specific conversation is that of Tol…

> You seem to have confused "the world" for "Christian Europe." Not really Yumboes are supernatural beings in the mythology of the Wolof people (most likely Lebou) of Senegal, West Africa. They closely resemble European fairies. Their alternatively used name Bakhna Rakhna literally means good people, an interesting parallel to the Scottish fairies called Good Neighbours. Yumboes are the spirits of the dead and, like…

>But mongol-typed are not actually dark skinned, they were in fact often very pale in the past, and tbf he also wrote "degraded and repulsive versions of"

True, but Star Trek's treatment of the original Klingons was much the same, based on a vague archetype of "swarthy" Eastern "barbarians" like the Khanate or stereotypes of the Japanese during WW2. We're talking about broad-brush stereotypes here. There was no non-racist reason to make the Klingons dark-skinned to begin with. As has been mentioned, the Romulans were also a villain species and they were white (as a plot point, they looked exactly like Vulcans because they were the same species. The Klingons were dark-skinned because in Western culture dark skin is visual shorthand for "savage."

And portraying "degraded and repulsive" versions of a specific human race is the literal definition of a racist caricature. Especially if the point is to make them evil.

>Same way I could say, as Italian, that "Jersey Shore" protagonists are a degraded and repulsive versions of Italians.

... if literally every Italian in the show was portrayed that way, and was canonically in the Mafia. And the protagonists were all non-Italians. And when people were corrupted by evil, they turned more Italian.

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#563

Post by peoplefromibiza » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 5:16 PM UTC

Fnoord wrote: post #522

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In this case, casting was chosen to be diverse at the expense of a detail barely anyone cares about. Sorry, but that's like saying that nobody cares about Gandalf the white in LOTR, and you can cast whoever you like for the role and make his robe rainbow colored. In fact Amazon didn't do that, the actor playing Gandalf in Rings of power is a white man. For obvious reasons, that have nothing to do with being against…

Perhaps the casted person was the best choice? Ian McKellen was an excellent choice for the role of Gandalf. Whether the same is true for other actors and roles depends on a case by case scenario. I couldn't care less about his skin colour. We in the West allowed foreigners and people of colour into our culture. We deal with it by being inclusive in 2022. Deal with it, simple as that. You don't like it, you don't wat…

> Ian McKellen was an excellent choice for the role of Gandalf

But would be completely wrong in the role of Django.

And Samuel L Jackson would make for a not so good Magneto.

> you don't watch it.

I hope I can still comment on the matter...

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#564

Post by benpxu » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 5:16 PM UTC

xiphias2 wrote: post #79

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it’s not the core audience. People who care about the lore and source material are insignificant compared to the amount of people who just enjoy a lavish production in a medieval fantasy setting. Clearly Amazon is targeting the people who enjoyed the movies and want a similar experience in a TV show format. Most don’t really care that it conforms to what Tolkien wrote. Heck, I’m probably unusual compared to t…

The problem with changing the world that was created by a writer is that the world had become so popular for a good reason. I didn't read Dune nor Brave New World, but I loved the Dune movie and didn't enjoy Brave New World series, because it just didn't make sense. I love exact book adaptations even if I hadn't read the book.

Another issue is that whoever they're hiring to write these adaptations either have no clue how to write, or are hamstrung by committee direction. You can make, quite effectively in fact, a story set in the same universe (cue all the Star Wars material that exists as books in the fandom) that has nothing to do with the original story. But it needs skill. Skill that they cannot seem to find.

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#565

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 5:16 PM UTC

CharlesW wrote: post #546

scarmig wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was watching Shameless the other day, and it's a drama-comedy about a dysfunctional poor family in the Chicago South Side. The family is white, and most of the main characters are white. This is really weird, if you've ever been to the South Side. But pretty much everyone quickly gets over that and ends up immersed in it. The issue with the Rings of Power and similar things isn't the anachronistic racial compositio…

> The issue with the Rings of Power and similar things isn't the anachronistic racial composition of the cast. Note that it's a myth that everyone in pre-modern Europe was white. This is a white supremacist trope easily proven wrong by, say, digging into the representation of POC in medieval European art. https://www.npr.org/2021/05/06/994325620/going-medieval-on-w... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/5-myths-a…

[deleted]

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#566

Post by didibus » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 5:18 PM UTC

zionic wrote: post #430

drexlspivey wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went over 2 pages of 1star reviews in rottentomatos and not one mentioned the woke stuff. Not sure where this notion that it’s been brigaded by the anti-woke crowd comes from. Most bad reviews mentioned bland characters, mediocre acting, bad dialogue/writing etc.

It’s wokewashing. The more diverse you make your cast, the more immune you are to criticism when your product flops. If the show was less diverse and flopped they couldn’t play the racism card to wipe reviews and churn up sympathetic media.

I'm not sure. The counter argument is, would there be as much review bombing had the cast been all white with main characters as men?

And I think no, there wouldn't have been as much. It still wouldn't be rocking a 9/10, but I don't believe it would have gotten as much review bombed.

I feel the truth is a bit in the middle, people are more critical and harsh on shows that also have more diversity, there's a lot more scrutiny on them. That doesn't mean the show can't be bad, but it does make the criticism a lot more difficult to navigate.

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#567

Post by indigodaddy » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 5:19 PM UTC

johnfn wrote: post #536

indigodaddy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to believe that the HoD IMDb rating is being pumped up by a rabid fanbase, even though the show is in fact, a pile of garbage. RoP IMO is quite a lot better. I enjoyed the first episode.

Hm. The fanbase from GoT was rabid, I'll give you, but rabid with negativity - they hated the ending, and a lot of them soured on the entire show after it was over. LoTR has an equally rapid fanbase, I'd say, but they were much more uniformly positive towards the source material. Then again, maybe that's why - the GoT fans are pleasantly surprised that HotD isn't a disaster, whereas the LoTR fans are upset that it's…

It sure seemed like a disaster 30 minutes in. I guess I’ll continue with it and see..

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#568

Post by wizofaus » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 5:19 PM UTC

didibus wrote: post #560

wizofaus wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't reply to the post below but where you say "I want to see black people stories, not just black people participating in white people stories where they are not originally mentioned." - I don't personally care if a movie reinterpretation casts a bald black actor (of either sex) for a character that's orginally a blue-haired pale-skinned fairy, but I definitely agree with this statement. And I wouldn't personally h…

> I want to see black people stories, not just black people participating in white people stories where they are not originally mentioned Isn't part of the problem that there are no such stories for those who were stolen from their culture and made to work by force, kept uneducated on purpose, and weren't given the opportunity to build stories of their own? A lot of Afro American don't speak their original language a…

Even if you restrict "black" to mean African Americans, that subculture has existed in its own right quite long enough for new stories to have been formed surely? The wikipedia article on African American literature would certainly suggest there's plenty to choose from.

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#569

Post by benpxu » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

webmobdev wrote: post #467

pseudo0 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems kind of weird to characterize Tolkien fans being interested in a new, high-profile Lord of the Rings show as "brigading". Of course the people with the biggest emotional connection and interest in a franchise will be the ones most active in reviewing, creating YouTube videos, and discussing it online. I think the better question is why so many established sci-fi and franchises seem to be alienating their cor…

They are not alienating their "core" audience - they were never the major target audience. The reason why most of the Marvel TV shows, Star Wars, Wheel of Time, Rings of Power, Halo etc. all appear to be "dumbed" down is because the target audience are teens and young adults. It's the "catch them young" tactic - all these streaming services are competing to get teens hooked to their streaming services. The next gen s…

This is like saying Wall-E or Inside Out are dumb movies because they need to hook young audiences.

It's not an either or situation here. Shows can be written to target many, many groups of audiences. They can be "smart" while still appealing to the masses.

Also, it's not so much dumbed down as just terrible acting and terrible writing. Cinematics are great, but cinematics are the only thing that's great.

Re: IMDB deleted all negative user reviews for The Rings of Power

#570

Post by maxk42 » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

onepunchedman wrote: post #505

SunlightEdge wrote: post #442

To be maybe controversial... I'm still thinking about it, but I do wonder if diverse casting works in European fantasy stories. The problem I have is that it generally pulls me out of the experience/ makes it less immersive. I welcome diverse castings in modern shows (though we don't need every show to follow a template 'diverse' casting). A common counter argument is, well you can suspend your disbelief and imagine…

When you say European, except for the fact that Tolkien wrote the story, what part of the show thus far has given you an explicit European feel? Did the Harfoots resemble British subjects, or do the race of men have to be from the European continent because of their skin color? Which city did Lindon look like? If we're already in a fantasy setting, why is there such a focus on relating the setting of the fantasy to o…

> When you say European, except for the fact that Tolkien wrote the story, what part of the show thus far has given you an explicit European feel?

"Middle Earth" was an old phrase used to refer to Western Europe in several Scandinavian languages. Tolkien, being a linguist, would have known this and chosen that turn of phrase deliberately.