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Jetbrains Space

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Re: Jetbrains Space

#61

Post by mdaniel »

prattmic wrote: post #32
mgaw wrote: post #29

It seems they are deprecating their standalone code review tool Upsource in favor of the code review tool that's integrated into Space. Upsource is nice because it allows opening a review for a set of commits which aren't necessarily continuous. This way, multiple people can work on the same branch at the same time, and open a review for their respective commits afterwards. You don't need to wait for your coworker to…

I’m not familiar with Upsource, but what you describe sounds somewhat like the Gerrit review process. Each commit is reviewed individually, but sending multiple dependent commits for review is supported as well. It is technically possible for a coworker to build on top of your unsubmitted changes (by checking out your commits and adding more on top). However this process gets somewhat painful if the coworker updates…

I played with Upsource back when it was their "static-analysis in the cloud," and it actually was cool, but holy hell it was a beast to get up and running, and (just like Qodana that they're trying now) the static analysis was(is?) indescribably hard to configure correctly to get meaningful results

I've heard great things about Gerrit, but it also seems like one of those "strongly opinionated, mailing-list based" review systems, and trying to lobby for such a thing in the GitHub/GitLab web based world is practically a non-starter in my experience

Re: Jetbrains Space

#62

Post by mdaniel »

dzikimarian wrote: post #11

We were waiting for the on prem version to give it a run. Sadly pricing structure is completely different than other Jetbrains products and tbh - crazy expensive. I hope it isn't beginning of transition to overpriced SaaSes everyone else offers.

waiting for the on-prem GA? because it is available just labeled as "beta" for whatever that means: https://www.jetbrains.com/space/whatsnew/#scope-2022-q3-spac...

Re: Jetbrains Space

#63

Post by pjmlp »

badloginagain wrote: post #53
wiradikusuma wrote: post #36

We use Space due to GitLab's recent pricing changes. We like: - free git hosting - free slack-like with sub-thread - generous CI/CD - built-in issue tracker - built-in wiki - very snappy - has mobile app We don't like: - CI/CD script uses Kotlin DSL, feels "heavy". - Issue tracker very basic, we end up using YouTrack. Still don't know how to integrate it lol. - One project can have multiple repos, but they all share…

Feels like there's a big race to be the all-in-one everything tool for everything. It's Gitlabs whole schtick, GitHub is moving in that direction, now "also Jetbrains". IMO I think something like Jetbrains should be leaning into integration, not all-in-one. Connective tissue last longer than walled garden.

The race is to go back into the timesharing development workflows, under the guise of cloud development.

Instead of telnet, ssh and X display, we get to use the browser.

Re: Jetbrains Space

#64

Post by mdaniel »

chrsig wrote: post #7
nightowl_games wrote: post #3

It seems like a daunting task for Space to actually deliver on all it's promises, but Jetbrains has an extremely high amount of credibility with developers. I want to believe in this product, as I want competition against VSCode and Slack.

I can believe that it'll be rough at first, but jetbrains is really good at iteratively improving their products. that said, I'm not incredibly interested in it. Maybe if I were at a company that just got a series A or something, and was starting to hire quickly, and didn't already have an entrenched environment. I'll probably make use of their remote environments at some point -- it solves a lot of cross-platform de…

> But clion really throws a wrench into that.

I was curious what the experience was since (as you pointed out) there's no C/C++ plugin to add to IJ but I thought _surely_ CLion would support their JDK bread and butter, but damn if it doesn't

> "*.java files are supported by IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate Try IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate"

:-/

Re: Jetbrains Space

#65

Post by pjmlp »

dixie_land wrote: post #51

Jetbrains pivots towards integrated solutions unfortunately reminds me of the demise of Delphi when Borland moved to "ALM". Hopefully IntelliJ fares better

They started to remind me of Borland when they came up with Kotlin and with Google's help, started to see the JVM only as a means to bootsptrap their own Kotlin ecosystem.

Re: Jetbrains Space

#66

Post by pjmlp »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #41

I suspect a lot of the success of this will hinge on how friendly it is to tools outside the Jetbrains ecosystem. In particular VSCode. On my team in our little startup doing Rust it's sort of 50/50 CLion vs VSCode. And in many ways we're getting okayish value out of just GitHub + Notion + Google Docs. I'm a big Jetbrains fanboy and an IntelliJ user since the 3.x days. I hope it works out for them.

With Microsoft increasing adoption of Rust, I imagine eventually they will ramp up their investment into Rust IDE tooling.

Re: Jetbrains Space

#67

Post by pjmlp »

smrtinsert wrote: post #42
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #41

I suspect a lot of the success of this will hinge on how friendly it is to tools outside the Jetbrains ecosystem. In particular VSCode. On my team in our little startup doing Rust it's sort of 50/50 CLion vs VSCode. And in many ways we're getting okayish value out of just GitHub + Notion + Google Docs. I'm a big Jetbrains fanboy and an IntelliJ user since the 3.x days. I hope it works out for them.

This is my exp too. Shops are usually majority Jetbrains but then there's those people who just refuse to switch and they like Sublime and vscode.

Xcode, Eclipse, Notepad++, VS and VScode over here.

Re: Jetbrains Space

#68

Post by number6 »

mdaniel wrote: post #58
yewenjie wrote: post #34

I don't use any Jetbrains product and I have no idea how well-executed this is, but I am pleased to see a relatively smaller company competing against the almost monopoly of Microsoft's VS Code and GitHub.

Err, you're aware that GitLab is MIT and Space is not even pretending to be open, right? IntelliJ and PyCharm Community are both Apache 2 licensed and are absolutely stellar https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community > (I mean that they're not crippleware, they're outstanding products that just happen to omit Spring, SQL, and Django support from the Apache 2 versions)

I recently bought the Professional Edition of Pycharm after using it for years. The pro features are nice but nothing I missed. Definitely not Crippleware

Re: Jetbrains Space

#69

Post by pjmlp »

mdaniel wrote: post #64
chrsig wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can believe that it'll be rough at first, but jetbrains is really good at iteratively improving their products. that said, I'm not incredibly interested in it. Maybe if I were at a company that just got a series A or something, and was starting to hire quickly, and didn't already have an entrenched environment. I'll probably make use of their remote environments at some point -- it solves a lot of cross-platform de…

> But clion really throws a wrench into that. I was curious what the experience was since (as you pointed out) there's no C/C++ plugin to add to IJ but I thought _surely_ CLion would support their JDK bread and butter, but damn if it doesn't > "*.java files are supported by IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate Try IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate" :-/

JetBrains products are the only Java IDE that doesn't support JNI debugging and development, they rather sell two licenses.

Android Studio supports that use case, because Google has gotten so bad feedback from leaving NDK users stranded, that they eventually got an agreement to have Clion plugins as part of Studio.

Re: Jetbrains Space

#70

Post by wiradikusuma »

mdaniel wrote: post #55
wiradikusuma wrote: post #36

We use Space due to GitLab's recent pricing changes. We like: - free git hosting - free slack-like with sub-thread - generous CI/CD - built-in issue tracker - built-in wiki - very snappy - has mobile app We don't like: - CI/CD script uses Kotlin DSL, feels "heavy". - Issue tracker very basic, we end up using YouTrack. Still don't know how to integrate it lol. - One project can have multiple repos, but they all share…

> - CI/CD script uses Kotlin DSL, feels "heavy". But hopefully the IDE completion is second to none? My experience with editing .gitlab-ci.yml is that different versions support different features/structures, but GL didn't annotate their file with any such version specifier making it hard on the tooling. I haven't used Space in anger in order to know what that editing experience is like, but I have used the Kotlin ve…

That's what I thought initially (it's just code! autocomplete! using Jetbrains' own tools!

But, unless you already know what you're looking for, it's useless. The documentation is very short and lacking examples. So the completion is, well, just for completion. Not good for exploration.

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