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Ask HN: Working as a software engineer for 5 years, I've forgotten all CS stuff

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Re: Ask HN: Working as a software engineer for 5 years, I've forgotten all CS stuff

#121
Welcome to the tail end of the Dunning-Kruger curve.

Everyone experiences this eventually, but not everybody realizes it at first.

Now that you know your capacity I recommend doing an annual round up of the things you still remember and can confidently put in your CV.

Also take note on how job interviews all but ignore this phenomenon.

Re: Ask HN: Working as a software engineer for 5 years, I've forgotten all CS stuff

#122

Academia, at its worst, is a closed system; it should be regarded as a lucky coincidence if any practical ("real world") skills are obtained in the process of earning a BS/MS/PhD.

I suppose it's where you studied.

My alma matter focuses on undergraduate education emphasizing real-world applications.

Re: Ask HN: Working as a software engineer for 5 years, I've forgotten all CS stuff

#123
You might not have it at the front of your mind, but you have probably internalized a lot of it.

When you see a problem that would benefit from application of CS theory you might end up applying it without realizing that is what you are doing.

Re: Ask HN: Working as a software engineer for 5 years, I've forgotten all CS stuff

#124

Academia, at its worst, is a closed system; it should be regarded as a lucky coincidence if any practical ("real world") skills are obtained in the process of earning a BS/MS/PhD.

Well the problem is that academia has been co-opted into being a vocational school (especially for STEM), when its purpose is scientific research. People looking for vocational schooling (e.g. "computer programmer") are frustrated that a lot of the education is theoretical/purely scientific and therefore "useless", and professors are frustrated having to teach disinterested students or university mandated material not relevant to research. Both parties feel the other is wrong when in reality neither is---the relationship society has forced them into is wrong.

Re: Ask HN: Working as a software engineer for 5 years, I've forgotten all CS stuff

#125
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your commennt exudes a particularly unpleasent pretentious tone. The average software engineer does not need to remember compiler design, digital logic, esoteric datastructures etc to do their job well. If people are forgetting "fundementals" (of which I would not classify specialised subjects such as compiler design), then it's because they don't need it for the job they're doing. Although I do agree that Computer S…

So then, computer science puts you passed average.

I'd say it's more of a skill mismatch for what developers actually do. You're much more likely to end up debugging an issue with the interactions between 5-6 annotations in a spring controller than to be implementing any sort of exotic data structure yourself. Also scoping working differently in different languages seems to break certain people's brains, which is increasingly important with python becoming more and more popular and having a... unique scoping model (function based/LEGB).

Some people manage to use that knowledge to bootstrap an understanding of the software ecosystem they find themselves in, and others really struggle with it and flail around. Then some other people manage to bootstrap these things from a biology degree or art history degree (or no degree at all)... somehow. I'm not entirely sure what correlates with success on that front actually.

Re: Ask HN: Working as a software engineer for 5 years, I've forgotten all CS stuff

#128
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The universities don't have it backwards, you do. Computer Science fundamentally isn't Software Engineering. If you have a degree in computer science and a job in (some particular subfield of) software engineering, it makes quite a lot of sense that the degree and the day to day aren't perfectly aligned. At any rate, not directly and frequently using all the theoretical underpinnings of networking/databases/etc hardl…

People go to universities to learn how to tackle real world programming problems. But then the universities teach them CS bullshit where 90% of it is unapplicable to the real world. Why would you go to such an university which is so disconnected from the real world?

> People go to universities to learn how to tackle real world programming problems.

That's your problem right there. Also, the term 'university' seems to be overloaded in so many different ways (multiplied by different countries and cultures).

To me, it seems that the American descriptions and their derivatives are pretty bad, same with the "poly"-prefixed educational institutions. There are so many factors that should be irrelevant (i.e. the "name" of the institute, the cost, the location) where only the subject matter and accreditation should be the actual factors.

If I were to categorise it, you'd have to split it in three directions:

  - Academia, scientific research (University)
  - High-level education, scientific principles and theory, but with application of said principes and theory in mind (College perhaps?)
  - General or vocational education, aimed at learning how to do a job (Trade school?)
But it is of course much more marketable if you call that middle tier a "University of Applied Sciences" as that sound much cooler and more advanced. The reality is that there are many more people needed in the world that actually perform the work than the amount of people that mostly think about the work that others might do.

The world needs people in all sorts of varieties, but the real-world workload is overwhelmingly one of execution, not one of theory. Of course, when people are stuck in the (rat) race, one must go to university because that is the best, and only the best is good enough. So even if going that far risks people into diving headfirst into their own Peter Principle, it is what people do anyway. The end result are a bunch of people that barely made it through university and aren't all that useful in the real world right away (not advanced enough to propel the entire field or niche forward, not practical enough to perform less theoretical work).

Of course, FAANG only wants the best, and since they can't go screen the 100k+ applications in their inboxes in detail they just start filtering based on paper promises or previous experience, with the end result being a stack of people who either already did the job, or who came out of university with advanced enough results to be malleable into the positions that are available. And thus the path is biased towards "if you want to make a ton of money so you can rent a broom closet in the bay area, you have to work at a FAANG and you can only do that with a university background". Ironically, as large and advanced as those companies may be, most people in the world don't work there. And trading in 80k for half the amount of work and normal living arrangements really isn't a bad deal when working anywhere else that's not a FAANG.

Re: Ask HN: Working as a software engineer for 5 years, I've forgotten all CS stuff

#130
I studied math and physics, not CS, but the situation is probably similar. I think the best, if not only realistic way to retain what I will call "theoretical" knowledge is to be genuinely interested in those things, possibly to the detriment of the most rapid possible career advancement.

The other thing is that it's normal. As systems get more complicated, the number of interactions between N elements grows as O(N*2). Thus, most "engineers" spend the bulk of their time organizing and arranging things, fitting things together, troubleshooting, dealing with vendors, etc. In some fields, manually operating tools such as CAD becomes more efficient than understanding the algorithms programmed into the tools. This is basically human powered information processing. The work needed to make the things that are fit together, such as algorithms, falls to a small fraction of the workforce, who are not necessarily the most highly rewarded, as their work is not so visible.

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