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Israeli rules say West Bank visitors must declare love interest

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Re: Israeli rules say West Bank visitors must declare love interest

#91
post #2

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Why should we focus on Ukraine, what is the difference between a Human who lives in Ukraine or a Human who lives in Palestine?

I think OP is making the point that now is a good time for oppressive states to start doing their thing. The world is distracted.

Re: Israeli rules say West Bank visitors must declare love interest

#92
Im not jewish and visited Israel recently for several weeks. Despite thinking I had a pretty good knowledge base of the situation beforehand, actually being there, and talking to people with actual stake in the region it became obvious that the opinions of people who have never been to Israel and dont have any skin in the game (95% of this thread) are completely off base, un-nuanced and literally worthless.

Re: Israeli rules say West Bank visitors must declare love interest

#93

Im not jewish and visited Israel recently for several weeks. Despite thinking I had a pretty good knowledge base of the situation beforehand, actually being there, and talking to people with actual stake in the region it became obvious that the opinions of people who have never been to Israel and dont have any skin in the game (95% of this thread) are completely off base, un-nuanced and literally worthless.

Perhaps you can tell us how it was different?

Re: Israeli rules say West Bank visitors must declare love interest

#94
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

So the US can just declare the black hoods as external terretories and then the South could have continued as they were in the 60s. Amazing what you can achieve by some legal shananigens. Fact is, Israel is in controll of those terretories, these people are suject to the Israeli state.

Gaza and West Bank are almost entirely autonomous. They are self-governing with their own civil administration, police force, school system, etc...

Israel controls, to only a limited extent, their international borders until a final peace deal is signed because there is a constant missile smuggling operations going on, with those missile being fired across the "border" into Israeli cities.

People need to start advocating for a peace deal, and stop taking "sides".

Re: Israeli rules say West Bank visitors must declare love interest

#95
post #13

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/04/27/abusive-israeli-policies... https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-... https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is...

Strange then that Gaza is firing missiles into Israel rather than negotiating for peace and independence.

Israel has repeatedly said that Gaza can be free and independent if they would just stop firing missile over the border into Israel and sign a peace agreement.

It's insane that people here are taking sides, including the above linked organizations, instead of pressuring Hamas (which controls Gaza) to accept a peace deal.

There are not settlements in Gaza. There are no Israeli soldiers in Gaza. It's the simplest easiest peace deal - stop shooting missiles at Israeli cities.

...and for those who don't understand why they do not do this incredibly easy thing - it is because Hamas is entirely funded and owned by Iran, who specifically forbids any peace with Israel.

Re: Israeli rules say West Bank visitors must declare love interest

#96
I like how much context the media gives on this issue "Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan in the 1967 Middle East War" - no mention, of course, of the fact that Jordan occupied it after 1948 war. And that at the initial Palestinian state was supposed to be Jordan, known then as Trans-Jordan, and the later, proposed UN partition created the state of Israel with multiple impossible-to-defend chokepoints to cut - if somehow they accepted this partition in 1948, given the real, factual history of attacks on it by neighboring states they wouldn't exist already.

With journalists who ought to be well-informed, I cannot chalk it up to incompetence - it's anti-semitism, pure and simple.

ADDED oh and, having been an immigrant to both Canada and US, all this kind of stuff is relatively normal. By relatively I mean given the relative security situation. Especially on family visas (not my case) where the US literally checks on your private life to ensure it's not fraud. On non-immigrant visa they grill you about potential jobs you might have lined up, or any relationships you might have, in case you are lying about your intent. Or, you could try to check out the medical restrictions that (used to?) exist when immigrating to Canada. Of course just like with the history, half-truths are necessary here to create the correct narrative that this is somehow abnormal.

Re: Israeli rules say West Bank visitors must declare love interest

#97
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

So the US can just declare the black hoods as external terretories and then the South could have continued as they were in the 60s. Amazing what you can achieve by some legal shananigens. Fact is, Israel is in controll of those terretories, these people are suject to the Israeli state.

"Amazing what you can achieve by some legal shananigens" applies the opposite way. These are technically parts of Israel, but Israel is not really in control of West Bank, and not at all in control of Gaza strip. They are halfway and fully controlled by hostile terrorist organizations that repeatedly claimed that the state they are "part of" must be destroyed, and implied or explicitly called for genocide as part of that.

Re: Israeli rules say West Bank visitors must declare love interest

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Their unwillingness to surrender ever more (litterally less every year) territory and and water rights to colonial settlers. Their inwillingeness accept that refugees have no right to return. Yeah they would have "sovereignty", just without most of the rights of a real state.

Do you support the "colonial settlement" of Indo-Europeans outside of the original Yamnaya territory, or should they all go back to the steppe and give Finns, Dravidians, Basques, etc. right to return?

Should the English GTFO to Denmark/Normandy/... and give the island back to the Welsh/etc.?

What about Turks, should they move back to Central Asia and give Anatolia back to Greece?

If those are not your proposals, perhaps we can just chill for a few hundred years until Israelis living where they have built a state is old enough for you to accept? :D

Oh yeah for extra credit, do the facts that Crimea, definitely, and Eastern regions, arguably, were transferred to Ukraine very recently; and then Ukraine supposedly "oppressed" them by revoking some status from Russian language, etc., justify the annexation of Crimea and/or the invasion by Russia? Cause, you know, "history", and "oppression"!

Re: Israeli rules say West Bank visitors must declare love interest

#99
post #13

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/04/27/abusive-israeli-policies... https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-... https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is...

Strange then that Gaza is firing missiles into Israel rather than negotiating for peace and independence. Israel has repeatedly said that Gaza can be free and independent if they would just stop firing missile over the border into Israel and sign a peace agreement. It's insane that people here are taking sides, including the above linked organizations, instead of pressuring Hamas (which controls Gaza) to accept a pea…

Maybe Israel should stop shooting people on the Gazan side of the wall within the so called "buffer zone". Why one side shooting is good and the other side is bad?

Re: Israeli rules say West Bank visitors must declare love interest

#100
post #93

Im not jewish and visited Israel recently for several weeks. Despite thinking I had a pretty good knowledge base of the situation beforehand, actually being there, and talking to people with actual stake in the region it became obvious that the opinions of people who have never been to Israel and dont have any skin in the game (95% of this thread) are completely off base, un-nuanced and literally worthless.

Perhaps you can tell us how it was different?

I dont like giving an opinion for the same reasons I was complaining about. I dont have stake in the region and there is so much nuance in the history im still missing. Things that I found striking though were that there are huge populations of arabs that live peacefully in Israel so this apartheid narrative is complete nonsense. The power dynamics are pretty set in stone, Israel will never have to give up an ounce of land that they dont want to. Anyone that talks about who has what right to what pieces of land are completely out of touch with that. It is irrelevant at this point. And Israel is making massive investments in the country. Palestinians could easily partake in that economic expansion but instead devote a significant portion of their economic activity to the conflict with Israel which has 0% chance of changing anything ever. Pretty sad imho
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