Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII • Hacker News Board

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#101

Post by acidioxide » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:30 AM UTC

soco wrote: post #60

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Poland is widely hated by its neighbors I'd say, "the current right-wing government is widely hated by most of its citizens." The mine case was just one of the many cases when they showed their glaring incompetence. I mean, they could have solved the problem a long time ago but by their arrogance decided to ignore it, then the case went to court and they had to do it anyway and pay a nice sum of money. Everybody is…

If it was so widely hated how come it got reelected?

Actually, it is not that simple. It is widely hated in upper-class, well educated residents of large cities, and very popular in rural areas where people are less wealthy.

https://www.cbos.pl/PL/szukaj/open_file.php?url=2022/K_092_2...

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#102

Post by acidioxide » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 7:27 AM UTC

Regardless of whether Poland can obtain this money or not, it is very important for historical reasons to know how big were the losses caused by Germany. Poland never gained any help, neither from the Marshall Plan, nor Germany.

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#103

Post by acidioxide » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 7:53 AM UTC

tester756 wrote: post #19

I've been hearing this for years just google: "poland reparations before:2022" what has changed this time?

A big, three-volume report prepared by 30 specialists has been published.

https://straty-wojenne.pl/

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#104

Post by shakow » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 7:57 AM UTC

dmichulke wrote: post #100

shakow wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France paid in 1871 a sum in the same ballpark than Germany should have paid in 1918. The difference was that France paid in full and in advance (so much in full that the cash influx actually caused a crash in Germany – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_indemnity#Aftermath ), whereas Germany tergiversed, delayed, and printed money like their was no tomorrow, sacrificing their econoomy on the altar of spiting their…

The same amount of money can be a lot or little for the same country, depending on a lot of things. Length of war, manpower losses, economic contraction due to the war, revolutions, famine?

No: e.g. the USSR paid the Brest-Litovsk reparation while being in the middle of its revolutionary war, France paid Versailles (1871) in a few years while being in the middle of its own Commune.

According to Versailles, Germany had actually to pay a third of the total sum in over a decade, all the while having the only intact industrial basis in Europe. It was absolutely doable, had they not adopted the most inane economical policies of the time, and scuttled their economy to spite the Entente.

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#105

Post by dogma1138 » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 11:01 AM UTC

blueflow wrote: post #51

The same contract (2+4) that excludes any further reparations is also the contract that says that reunified Germany will not make territorial claims to Pommerania and Silesia. I'm not sure if Poland has the high ground in this.

Poland was never part of the Soviet Union and was not party to the 2+4 agreement.

IANAL but I don’t think this specific treaty would have any material relevance in this case.

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#106

Post by soco » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 11:22 AM UTC

pseudo0 wrote: post #91

jonp888 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case it was plain and simple one off cash payments targeted at their core voter base. I don't think many governments are as blatant as that.

In the US, we had COVID relief checks and student loan debt forgiveness in the last couple years, both of which seemed like pretty blatant vote-buying attempts.

I argue this is stuff you should always expect from a functioning state - education and health services. And especially because they are universal, they would buy voting support from... everyone?

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#107

Post by orangepurple » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 5:27 PM UTC

fsckboy wrote: post #74

orangepurple wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was before the Russian energy crisis. Poland refused to give up energy independence.

that's not really a counter argument since their neighbors except Russia are experiencing energy shortages.

Think about what you just wrote. Poland cranked up the coal before the war, ensuring consistent energy availability long term. Meanwhile, its neighbors were shutting down nuclear and increasing dependence on unreliable alternative energy sources.