If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever • Hacker News Board

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#241

Post by mattigames » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 5:51 AM UTC

treyfitty wrote: post #94

I’ve been interviewing for 8 months. Getting to many final rounds, 1 lowballed offer, 1 rescinded offer, and it’s playing a mental toll. Today, I got a rejection that went along the lines of “everyone loved you and there was absolutely 0 negative feedback, but we just found a better fit.” I almost broke down, but hid behind a facade of positivity because the long weekend was starting and my kids can’t afford a bummed…

After being burned a few times in similar ways I have detached my feelings from work, to the point that I believe that not actively looking for a better job than the one you have is foolish, I know it's an unpopular opinion but I reached the logical conclusion, that my work is just an asset and I sell it to the best bidder.

There is a handful of cases I would concede that you shouldn't keep searching for a new job but they are rare, like when you reach the position and company you dreamed your whole life and it's everything you wanted (e.g an artist that dreamed of becoming head animator at studio ghibli), or a company where you own a big stake and strongly believe soon will increase in value, or you found a company that provides so much generous benefits that looking for better position would likely be a waste of time (e.g. 200K, 3 day work week, great teammates)

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#242

Post by KennyBlanken » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:00 AM UTC

hotpotamus wrote: post #59

bruce511 wrote: post #37

Interviewing is hard, requires skills precisely zero people are trained to do, and has huge long-term upsides and downsides to a business. I'm a programmer. I trained for years to do that. Then I'm asked to hire someone. A task I have zero experience or training at. Spoiler alert - any actual competence is a fluke. At my peak I was hiring maybe 2 or 3 people in a year. Mostly I hired people I'd heard about who came w…

I think I've been fairly successful as an interviewer by having a few basic rules. Basically, do your homework, which I'm routinely surprised is so lacking in the adult world. For interviews, that means read their resume and probably have it with you in print form or other when you interview them. Print feels more sociable than staring at them over a laptop and clicking a bunch of keys while they talk - though I do t…

As an interviewee I've always been flattered when the interviewer shows up with a copy of my resume covered in notes and we have a good conversation about my background.

The most offended I've been in an interview was a senior manager who, despite having had the interview rescheduled for his schedule - pushed up by a week - still had apparently never glanced at my resume until he was sitting across from me, and repeatedly misread details, which made things even more awkward.

I had spent probably 8 hours reading up about the company, the CEO, and this senior manager.

I really wish I hadn't needed the job as badly as I did, because otherwise I would have stood up and asked to be shown out the second it was obvious he was reading my resume for the first time. It was deeply insulting.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#243

Post by PebblesHD » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:01 AM UTC

technick wrote: post #239

PebblesHD wrote: post #44

These styles of multi-round interviews inspired by the FAANG collective started picking up in Australia before the pandemic, but it got to a point where most of my more talented colleagues and I all agreed it just wasn’t worth the time for the salaries being offered. 4 round interviews for a ‘senior’ developer position on $120k? When interviewing my own candidates, I use a 1 hour interview mostly focused on approach…

> We have a probation period to work out if they’ve over-promised That's what contracting is for and I tell everybody to turn down any position that starts as a "contractor". Commit or GTFO, stop wasting peoples time.

That’s just not the case in the Australian market. Contractors generally receive a higher rate of pay in exchange for an ongoing risk that they won’t be renewed, and are generally used to fill temporary skills gaps for projects and such. Permanent roles are expected to be for ongoing work, but that still leaves a risk of a bad hire as our labour laws are quite strict in terms of how you can terminate a permanent employee, which is what our probation laws cover, as it encourages employers to take risks with potentially under qualified candidates or be less prone to these sorts of 20 hour long 10 stage interviews to eliminate the possibility of a bad hire at the expense of wasting countless hours for even a good hire.

On the balance, I prefer the probation approach as it makes life easier for everyone.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#244

Post by raffraffraff » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:05 AM UTC

yibg wrote: post #214

targ65 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

whose bills though? most people find one of the most high paying jobs they can, then adjust their lifestyle to that income, then if they miss the mark ('lowball offer') they have to keep looking. lifestyle regression is exceptionally hard for humans, especially if your friends/neighbors don't have to go through the same thing (e.g. there's no war raging in your country). the best thing to do would be to keep your spe…

I’ve found keeping expenses well below my means provide a great sense of freedom and autonomy. I don’t need to stay at a job I don’t enjoy and not having work means it’s not a big stressor. It also means I can be selective in the job I do end up taking instead of worry about not being able to pay the bills if I’m out of work too long.

This. But it really depends where you live and when (or if) you bought a house. I live in a city that has very expensive housing but bought in 2011 just before the prices corrected after the 2007/2008 crash. That single choice was the biggest we made. But aside from that, for ethical and lifestyle reasons, we are frugal. We use old phones and laptops, a 10 year old TV, don't fly, don't own a car and don't have kids. Result is that the house is paid off and we have enough in the bank to walk out on any job and remain funemployed for months (or more). You might think our lifestyle sounds boring, but when you remove stress and worry, you realise that a simple life can be a very happy one. A job you like, gardening, board games, long walks, DIY, cooking... None of it needs to cost much. I think that people who live with worry and stress desperately need to escape on holidays and reward themselves with expensive purchases (new cars/tech/fashion) to keep their spirits up and make it seem like the huge effort is worthwhile.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#245

Post by 2muchcoffeeman » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:08 AM UTC

pkrotich wrote: post #46

stackbutterflow wrote: post #17

My last job search took a toll on my mental health. I felt like a worthless person for 3 months. I could feel (or imagine?) the disdain of the interviewers as I was failing their tests. The fake enthusiasm on their side as they rejected me ("that was great! But we're not going to move forward with you! Good luck!!!") and on my side while pretending I was excited when in fact I was worried about money and the gap on m…

I feel your pain! I had an initial phone interview with Yahoo in mid 2000 or so and my anxiety got the best of me on "hello". I went blank! Forgot how to talk - so I hanged up and DECIDED that very minute that I would start my own company and never interview again!

I once blanked in the middle of n interview because in the back of my mind I was thinking “do I really want to work for these guys?” And my brain started to wonder.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#246

Post by 5350-uiop-1130 » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:16 AM UTC

- If a job has more than 2 rounds, no thanks.

- If they send me a leetcode or test before speaking to me, no thanks.

- If the job ad says anything about "culture", no thanks.

- If my first interview is with an HR person, no thanks.

- If the job ad or email mention anything about making a video of myself, I will delete that mofo with extreme prejudice.

- If the job application requires me to sign up to your website, no thanks.

I have 15 years of commercial experience. When I apply for a job, all I want is to speak to one technical person in the team that has oversight. If that is too much to ask then I'm just not throwing my name in that hat for the inevitable humiliation ritual.

But the reality is that (web-dev) jobs are over-saturated. There are plenty of people willing to go through this. Which is why I'm looking for a way out.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#247

Post by dave_sullivan » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:17 AM UTC

cjohnson318 wrote: post #203

treyfitty wrote: post #94

I’ve been interviewing for 8 months. Getting to many final rounds, 1 lowballed offer, 1 rescinded offer, and it’s playing a mental toll. Today, I got a rejection that went along the lines of “everyone loved you and there was absolutely 0 negative feedback, but we just found a better fit.” I almost broke down, but hid behind a facade of positivity because the long weekend was starting and my kids can’t afford a bummed…

Dumb question, have you tried shorter term contracts? Have you tried networking with your peers from your bootcamp? I get that it's better to have Big Stable Names on your resume, but there's a lot of places that just need things done, and any experience is better than nothing.

Do you have any leads on short term contracts? Would accept one in an instant.

The problem is upwork takes a 20% cut and has bad terms and has a very flaky client base, while everything that VC money touches pays way better but hires non-contract fulltime only (fine) and has these rediculous interview cycles that I never seem to pass through.

I think if you put me in a stack of candidates that did leet code, i am basically never in the top 3 fastest, so that makes me unemployable in a system where resumes dont matter, personality is suspected to be bullshit, and speed of test completion is the only metric that can be used to rank candidates. Not in the top 3 fastest test takers? Get fucked.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#248

Post by KennyBlanken » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:19 AM UTC

SxC97 wrote: post #235

It's very refreshing to hear others complain about the interview culture at these companies. In the last year I've interviewed at Apple, Amazon, Meta, IBM and a couple others and failed every interview. I've only recently finished my undergrad in CS and am still working on my CS masters but despite doing well in school I felt like an absolute failure after every interview. It's somewhat comforting to hear this is a c…

Some of the most interesting and friendly places to work at, where I learned the most, were small companies.

I strongly recommend you consider looking around for any small, cool tech companies in your area. Ask among your professors, look for local slack/discord groups, etc.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#249

Post by benjaminwootton » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:21 AM UTC

cooldrcool3 wrote: post #149

OrangeMonkey wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look man - you fucking matter and you will get this. The crap you are going through is not fair, this entire process is not fair, but who the fuck cares - you will get this. Do NOT let this fucking industry joke of an interview process harm you man. Seriously. It really is not you - its them.

Why should we put our mental health on the line for this industry? There must be other jobs that are fulfilling and pay the bills.

There aren’t many industries which are as easy to access whilst paying between $100k and $skys_the_limit.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#250

Post by NonNefarious » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 6:22 AM UTC

bmitc wrote: post #189

sahila wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds unlike faang interviews (the only one person being a swe part). Which one was it and what were the interviews like? The non-team thing is common but they do it to bring “objectivity” to the process and since it’s leetcode or system design questions, it usually doesn’t matter unless you’re applying for a highly specialized role. I can speak for google and Amazon - you might not even apply for a specific te…

The interview revolved almost 100% around their leadership principles, of which humility is not one, so that should pinpoint it. And I said no one was a software engineer. All six were management.

From that I would guess Google, who are known to be douchebags in the interview process and in the peer-eval process.

Hell, they admitted as much a few years ago... and claimed they were going to try to be better.