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If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

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Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#211
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it funny that a week ago I got an email from a Google recruiter, offering me to enter their interviewing machinery. I bluntly told him that I rejected the offer because of the horror stories regarding 5-7 interviews in Google. The recruiter's reply was that it was ok of this was not an appropriate time for me , and that we would stay in touch. How can they be so dense? Of course it may be that they are also j…

They don't need you - they have tons of very talented people applying.

And I'm perfectly fine with that and agree with it. Maybe they should stop paying for outbound recruiting and save everyone time, given the tons of talented people that apply.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#212
Okay to be frank, I enjoy interviews. And interviewing for 7 hours isn't a big deal for me with a company at all.

However it just gets tiring.

I'm actually going to be at a 7 hours total of interviewing with one company. 5 hours total with another (in addition to recruiter calls) and possibly even more.

The thing is I know my worth, and this is actually a feeling the market round for me, so I'm not stressed at all. But I have done interviews where I spent 4 hrs writing some mock react app as a take-home, then another 4 hours of interviews, and those really get to me, they killed an evening for me. Those are the worst.

Point is... Interviewing suuuucks when you're some of the highest paid employees in the company.

Some hints I want to give for people interviewing:

1) Start the convo with salary expectations. Otherwise you spend 6 hours and find out its too low. I made this mistake. Don't be me.

2) Level set on seniority level and what would it take for you to leave your current job. If you despise your job, okay I can see this being quick, if you do not you're gonna be looking for potential negotiating power.

3) Enjoy the interview. Literally people want you to blabber on about yourself for 4 hours. Shit I could not think of a better way to get my cabin fever out of the way.

Make this A LOT EASIER ON YOURSELF: make sure you know your talking points. Know your core stories you fall back to for all sort of behavioral questions. I'd say do 10 trial interviews, after about 10 you get REALLY good at this, then interview for the jobs you really really actually care about. If you can, conduct as many interviews as possible at work. Sit in them. Lead them. The more you conduct the easier you can interview for someone else. Its like free practice!!!! Best part, the thing you look for... the other side looks for when they interview you!!!

4) Brush up on a little bit of leet code, but also know how to take your time. Being able to ace the technical interview is a great way to go. Startups tend not to offer leet code because they can't be that picky. The best interviews are things like "did you read the code?!?!?!" "did you read the data structure?" "can you approach a technical problem well or do you get lost?" "can you debug?"

How to ace technical interviews: interview a friend. What would YOU look for from a technical person? What helps you decide "wow this person really knows how to code" from "this person has memorized leet code questions". Then do that exact thing. Show them you understand trade-offs, you don't have to implement them but show you know about them, talk about ways your code could have been better if you had more time, learn to structure / attack problems in a modular way. All that makes you look GOOOOOOOD.

5) Make it a fun convo. Think of the interview as a date. Both of you want different things, but ultimately both of you want to show eachother a good time. So show them a good time, and let them show you a good time. You get people talking about their projects and fun technical challenges (if you ever interview with an architect). Remember, people LOVE TO TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES. If they do, they feel good. Make sure to answer what they need to make a decision and then throw in some happy they talk about their stuff into the mix.

In any case. Make the interview fun, and long interviews turn out to be a fun time to hang out with new people and get cool short conversations going. And make a fuckton of money from it :)

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#214
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we put our mental health on the line for this industry? There must be other jobs that are fulfilling and pay the bills.

whose bills though? most people find one of the most high paying jobs they can, then adjust their lifestyle to that income, then if they miss the mark ('lowball offer') they have to keep looking. lifestyle regression is exceptionally hard for humans, especially if your friends/neighbors don't have to go through the same thing (e.g. there's no war raging in your country). the best thing to do would be to keep your spe…

I’ve found keeping expenses well below my means provide a great sense of freedom and autonomy. I don’t need to stay at a job I don’t enjoy and not having work means it’s not a big stressor. It also means I can be selective in the job I do end up taking instead of worry about not being able to pay the bills if I’m out of work too long.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#215

I’ve been interviewing for 8 months. Getting to many final rounds, 1 lowballed offer, 1 rescinded offer, and it’s playing a mental toll. Today, I got a rejection that went along the lines of “everyone loved you and there was absolutely 0 negative feedback, but we just found a better fit.” I almost broke down, but hid behind a facade of positivity because the long weekend was starting and my kids can’t afford a bummed…

Been there buddy (including that exact, form-letter rejection email). I feel for you. I just finished a 9 month interview cycle of funemployment, with a break of two months in-between where I too, was questioning my reason for even being in this industry. My background is a coding bootcamp + relentless up-skilling and self-directed learning (with the help of some mentors), plus a healthy side of ADHD/spectrum issues,…

Have you tried ADHD medications? I don't normally take them but they really helped me going through the interviews (I legitimately have ADHD, but the side effects are too much for me for normal use)

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#216

Hits close to home. I did an interview with a static analysis company and everything went well until the “People Gardeners” interview. It was a relatively short meeting that was mostly taken up by them asking basic career history questions, but part of it supposedly had some kind of personality fit methodology. I was told matter-of-factly that I was out of touch with my emotions and therefore couldn’t fit the team. T…

Culture fit is basically how companies hide their biases when it comes to hiring.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#217
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it more expensive than leaving the position open for months though? I’ve seen multiple companies I’ve applied at and my own employer just sit with empty roles which meant the job never got done. I was under the impression from the startup world and my won engineering experience that getting to market with a substandard product was always better than never releasing because you were aiming for perfection.

I think at big companies that serve millions, it's more the other way. The brand hit of a substandard product or actual defects could result in recalls or lawsuits. It's the problem of scale: imperfect code works for a few hundred users but you need finely engineered code to work for millions. Same with other products as they will be used in every crazy way you can imagine and some you can't.

I get why FAANGs do this, the scale the work at and the salaries they pay make it seem worth the extra scrutiny.

I wasn’t clear in my previous question but I don’t work at FAANG tier, I work at startups and enterprises who struggle to break 200 million/yr in revenue and offer 180k max for principal engineer positions. What I’m curious on is why all these bit players are acting like they need FAANG level talent without paying out the salaries, but more importantly, paying the cost of having this complicated an interview process.

Every position they leave unfilled is an opportunity cost and every extra step they add to their interview process is another few thousands of dollars they add to the acquisition cost of every engineer. I’m struggling to see what the benefit is for them when they do not operate on the scale that requires meticulous engineering

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#218
post #189
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds unlike faang interviews (the only one person being a swe part). Which one was it and what were the interviews like? The non-team thing is common but they do it to bring “objectivity” to the process and since it’s leetcode or system design questions, it usually doesn’t matter unless you’re applying for a highly specialized role. I can speak for google and Amazon - you might not even apply for a specific te…

The interview revolved almost 100% around their leadership principles, of which humility is not one, so that should pinpoint it. And I said no one was a software engineer. All six were management.

What level were you? I've never heard of managers interviewing software engineers at AMZN.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been there buddy (including that exact, form-letter rejection email). I feel for you. I just finished a 9 month interview cycle of funemployment, with a break of two months in-between where I too, was questioning my reason for even being in this industry. My background is a coding bootcamp + relentless up-skilling and self-directed learning (with the help of some mentors), plus a healthy side of ADHD/spectrum issues,…

Have you tried ADHD medications? I don't normally take them but they really helped me going through the interviews (I legitimately have ADHD, but the side effects are too much for me for normal use)

There are some with minimal sides, if you can stand going to a doctor enough times to try out and reject several.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#220

These styles of multi-round interviews inspired by the FAANG collective started picking up in Australia before the pandemic, but it got to a point where most of my more talented colleagues and I all agreed it just wasn’t worth the time for the salaries being offered. 4 round interviews for a ‘senior’ developer position on $120k? When interviewing my own candidates, I use a 1 hour interview mostly focused on approach…

I’m all for probation periods. I think this is where the industry should go. Before I got hired at my current job, I think I went through around 20 hours of total interviews at several companies. I got to the final round three times for three separate companies, but they always found a reason to say no at the end. At my current company, I’m thriving and people constantly tell me so. It really makes me wonder if those other companies had just given me a chance, how much I would’ve thrived there. Really just a waste of time for everyone in the end.
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