If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever • Hacker News Board

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#191

Post by telman17 » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 3:29 AM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #68

telman17 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this interview you’ll be expected to program your own editor and then complete the assessment in it. Good luck!!!!!

Write down the source code for your editor in a notebook, and then read it back to me over the phone.

Back in 2013 I had an interview with a large company whose game consoles are very rare to find in stores currently where the guy wanted me to recite JS syntax over the phone. He'd tell me I was incorrect if I didn't say "semi-colon". I wish I was making this up. Hoping they've modified their process a bit. :)

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#192

Post by np- » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 3:29 AM UTC

iou wrote: post #180

throwawaysleep wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I just interview endlessly. At least one a week. You need to develop a callus to interviewing. Find the time for it by rubber stamping a few code reviews. It gets boring after a while. Just a very repetitive process after 100 or so.

Do you do the full loop with each company? How do you select the companies? Do you feel bad if they’re smaller ones and you’re not serious about it?

Not OP, but why would you feel bad? Anecdotally, I’ve gone into interviews before thinking it means nothing, and one of the small companies I wasn’t serious about ended up convincing me to join. It’s really on the company to sell their vision.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#193

Post by rnk » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 3:31 AM UTC

stackbutterflow wrote: post #17

My last job search took a toll on my mental health. I felt like a worthless person for 3 months. I could feel (or imagine?) the disdain of the interviewers as I was failing their tests. The fake enthusiasm on their side as they rejected me ("that was great! But we're not going to move forward with you! Good luck!!!") and on my side while pretending I was excited when in fact I was worried about money and the gap on m…

If you have a gap just say you took time off between jobs. Are you exploring startup ideas but decided to go back to a company. Have a few startup ideas in your back pocket just in case.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#194

Post by ReptileMan » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 3:32 AM UTC

citizenkeen wrote: post #78

gabeio wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have a probation period to work out if they’ve over-promised I'm curious what you mean by over-promised? Unless you only do this for people who don't already have a job, this sounds more toxic than multiple interviews. "Oh yeah we want you to work for us, but quit your old company, we'll try you out for a few weeks and if not we'll go our separate ways" ... but they quit their previous company so it's not as nic…

If they said in the interview they’re very comfortable with Vue.js and Postgres, and then you find out after a few weeks that actually they barely know Vue or Postgres, they actually come from a React/SQLite background, they’ve overpromised. Rather than ensuring every bullet point on their resume is factual through six interviews I’ve found it’s better to assume they’re honest and as capable as advertised, interview…

And anyone should be able to learn a new framework/tech stack in a week anyway.

Unless it's asp or laravel. Then it is two weeks in which you have to be constantly drunk.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#195

Post by bmitc » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 3:32 AM UTC

COGlory wrote: post #185

bmitc wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just went through an interview cycle at a FAANG, and I'm pretty sure only one interviewer out of five was directly involved in the actual position. And I'm somewhat certain that it was the others who were the nos. I actually didn't find out anything about the position until the final interview. Additionally, no one in the panel was a software engineer ... for a software engineering position.

Honestly, it sounds like you dodged a bullet.

The bullet would have paid well, lol, and the domain area was pretty damn interesting (only reason I considered it in the first place), but yes. Although, it's honestly a little unclear. I really enjoyed speaking with the hiring manager and thought it went well enough, but the other parts and the overall process was not enjoyable. It was nothing but A-type people and subtlety hostile (?), if that makes sense. Like the others weren't interested or I was untrustworthy or not capable or wasting their time or something. Just a weird feeling. But I wouldn't have worked with those people? Either way, I guess they're looking for a very specific type of engineer, and I am not that engineer I suppose.

Overall, I somewhat expected such an experience and am glad I ended up where I did. The place I am going is filled with great people, and honestly, more intelligent and curious people.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#196

Post by rnk » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 3:33 AM UTC

jahewson wrote: post #98

eastbound wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve just hired a wrong person. I’m extremely worried how I should manage an exit plan with her, I don’t see a good way of minimizing the impact. Some employers are stupid and make bad decisions because they’re too shy to ask for a third round of interview when we assume everyone at that level will know the standard set of JS skills, especially since the market is difficult for employers. While it’s painful to give t…

It happens. It's awkward because not only does it obviously suck for the employee but it means there's a big problem with the interview process. When I worked for a company that encountered the same problem we corrected for it by adding a screening call, after CTO chat and before an on-site. We used that call with a senior engineer to perform a trivial live-coding problem in Code Sandbox. Every candidate got the same…

Adding three interviews put you a little close to the joke situation on the original poster's article. Asking everyone to write fizz buzz smart though.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#197

Post by ReptileMan » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 3:34 AM UTC

warriormonk5 wrote: post #158

HomeDeLaPot wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it seems simpler to just let someone go if they're not working out after 90 days; no need to tell every new hire that they're "on probation".

Probation is a legal term that has implications like you can let someone go for no reason. Most places don't have zero worker rights like the US does.

Where I live there is almost always 30-180 days probation period and then the contract turns into permanent. Usually not a big deal.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#198

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 3:35 AM UTC

cooldrcool3 wrote: post #149

OrangeMonkey wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look man - you fucking matter and you will get this. The crap you are going through is not fair, this entire process is not fair, but who the fuck cares - you will get this. Do NOT let this fucking industry joke of an interview process harm you man. Seriously. It really is not you - its them.

Why should we put our mental health on the line for this industry? There must be other jobs that are fulfilling and pay the bills.

How many of those jobs pay just as much or more as a medical doctor for a fraction of the education and arguably quite a bit less stress? I’m not a fan of the interview process at all and not defending it at all, but when you compare it to “other jobs”, it’s very clear that most software engineers (in the states at least) are compensated quite well

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#199

Post by rnk » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 3:35 AM UTC

philliphaydon wrote: post #55

eastbound wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve just hired a wrong person. I’m extremely worried how I should manage an exit plan with her, I don’t see a good way of minimizing the impact. Some employers are stupid and make bad decisions because they’re too shy to ask for a third round of interview when we assume everyone at that level will know the standard set of JS skills, especially since the market is difficult for employers. While it’s painful to give t…

This is why propbation periods exist. It’s a chance for the employee or employer to back out.

Probationary periods are good for companies, but they're horrible for early stage engineers. They don't know how to take it, and they probably don't have a lot of money saved up. I think if companies decide to fire someone after a probationary period they should give them a $1,000 bonus or something to carry them over. That engineer has given up other opportunities and maybe moved or made changes in their life. Not everyone is a reasonably well off software engineer with money in the bank.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#200

Post by As_You_Wish » Sat, Sep 03, 2022, 3:36 AM UTC

swader999 wrote: post #102

As_You_Wish wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is super expensive to hire someone. The costs are enormous. Let's take a hire that will make $10,000 per month, nice round number. Someone in HR has to write the job description. This takes the HR person's time, the hiring manager, the hiring manager's boss just to get the information for a job description Job description cost with hiring manager: $500 Job description cost with hiring manager's boss: $500 HR perso…

It can go like that. A lot of other times, a trusted dev brings their buddy on after an hour talk with the team and it just works out because one person has directly worked with them in the past and two others have a friend that also vouches for them. Seen this most places I've worked.

Sure. No question about that at all. That's why companies reward employees who bring in new people and they get hired.

That's difficult to control, though, that's the problem. And especially if a company wants to hire 15 devs this quarter, who have the required skill set.

If you have a small company with 5 devs, and it hires 1, maybe 2 new devs over the course of the year and there's no real time frame on finding a new dev, you only hire when you find a good person, well, that is a different scenario entirely.

But like most things, that is only an ad hoc solution. What do you do, as the business owner asks the devs for referral and there are none? What do you do? You have to go to the open market. And as I wrote in my last post:"It's about the statistics over dozens of hiring decisions." So not just a hire here and there, but for a sytem.

I work a lot with people in the trades - electricians, plumbers, dry wallers, insulation installers, etc. Man, you think there's a shortage in devs??? Nobody, but nobody, is going into the trades anymore. There's no one to hire, no one to refer.