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If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

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Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#101

Post by cgio »

PebblesHD wrote: post #80
eastbound wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry, what are typical pays for a junior engineer (Say, JS and Java?), a medium and a senior?

Depends which section of the industry you end up in, but in the big banks which are some of the largest java shops, a cadet/intern will end up around $45k, a junior around $55-65k, an ordinary dev around $80-90k, and a senior anywhere from $115-$150k but weighted toward the lower end. Then of course there’s the rest of the buzzword fleet, DevOps engineers are a bit of a premium on those figures, architects the same.

I am seeing interns joining at 90k+ atm and you can extrapolate but on a <45deg angle from there. I even know a junior (<2yr experience) at 140k, not any kind of superstar but lucky I guess. Are you talking Aussie market? Maybe for entrenched big java teams that are reluctant to restructure their compensation for the whole team. I’d advise anyone to look at newer teams that can accommodate market rates easier.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#102

Post by swader999 »

As_You_Wish wrote: post #77
lovich wrote: post #25

I don't disagree with this articles satire, as it lines up with my experience if you remove a bit of the hyperbole. I am however curious as to why companies continue to do this and seem to be increasing their interview requirements in the face of an inability to hire. The most reasonable sounding answer I can come up with is that executives are balking at engineering pay and rationalizing it to themselves by demandin…

It is super expensive to hire someone. The costs are enormous. Let's take a hire that will make $10,000 per month, nice round number. Someone in HR has to write the job description. This takes the HR person's time, the hiring manager, the hiring manager's boss just to get the information for a job description Job description cost with hiring manager: $500 Job description cost with hiring manager's boss: $500 HR perso…

It can go like that. A lot of other times, a trusted dev brings their buddy on after an hour talk with the team and it just works out because one person has directly worked with them in the past and two others have a friend that also vouches for them. Seen this most places I've worked.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#103

Post by heyitsguay »

treyfitty wrote: post #94

I’ve been interviewing for 8 months. Getting to many final rounds, 1 lowballed offer, 1 rescinded offer, and it’s playing a mental toll. Today, I got a rejection that went along the lines of “everyone loved you and there was absolutely 0 negative feedback, but we just found a better fit.” I almost broke down, but hid behind a facade of positivity because the long weekend was starting and my kids can’t afford a bummed…

My partner just got off the tech job hunt roller coaster last week - signed a solid offer at a great company with a team she's excited to join. It took months, she encountered some similar disappointments, felt the same doubts and fears, and I know how awfully hard it can be. Keep rolling the dice though! It's hard but it will pay off.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#104

Post by shoo »

eastbound wrote: post #61
PebblesHD wrote: post #44

These styles of multi-round interviews inspired by the FAANG collective started picking up in Australia before the pandemic, but it got to a point where most of my more talented colleagues and I all agreed it just wasn’t worth the time for the salaries being offered. 4 round interviews for a ‘senior’ developer position on $120k? When interviewing my own candidates, I use a 1 hour interview mostly focused on approach…

I’m sorry, what are typical pays for a junior engineer (Say, JS and Java?), a medium and a senior?

You can certainly hit AUD 200k (including superannuation) as a senior software engineer at one of the big australian banks. To go much higher you probably have to stop being an IC and start being an engineering manager. Or stop being a permie and start being a contractor.

Some US-based well funded companies that hire software engineers in Australia are willing to bid substantially higher for senior engineers (i.e. ~ AUD 300k comp + stock).

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#105

Post by nomel »

citizenkeen wrote: post #78
gabeio wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have a probation period to work out if they’ve over-promised I'm curious what you mean by over-promised? Unless you only do this for people who don't already have a job, this sounds more toxic than multiple interviews. "Oh yeah we want you to work for us, but quit your old company, we'll try you out for a few weeks and if not we'll go our separate ways" ... but they quit their previous company so it's not as nic…

If they said in the interview they’re very comfortable with Vue.js and Postgres, and then you find out after a few weeks that actually they barely know Vue or Postgres, they actually come from a React/SQLite background, they’ve overpromised. Rather than ensuring every bullet point on their resume is factual through six interviews I’ve found it’s better to assume they’re honest and as capable as advertised, interview…

> And I’ll let someone go within 90 days, for any (legal, ethical) reason.

I think it's a cultural difference. Many companies see firing as a failure to competently hire. Many employees see firing as a sign of instability. In the few startups I've worked at, I saw top talent leave at the first sign of instability/layoffs.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#106

Post by nuclearnice1 »

citizenkeen wrote: post #78
gabeio wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have a probation period to work out if they’ve over-promised I'm curious what you mean by over-promised? Unless you only do this for people who don't already have a job, this sounds more toxic than multiple interviews. "Oh yeah we want you to work for us, but quit your old company, we'll try you out for a few weeks and if not we'll go our separate ways" ... but they quit their previous company so it's not as nic…

If they said in the interview they’re very comfortable with Vue.js and Postgres, and then you find out after a few weeks that actually they barely know Vue or Postgres, they actually come from a React/SQLite background, they’ve overpromised. Rather than ensuring every bullet point on their resume is factual through six interviews I’ve found it’s better to assume they’re honest and as capable as advertised, interview…

I agree with the other poster. The possibility of ending up unemployed is a bit stressful here.

What percentage of people get let go within 90 days?

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#107

Post by jtchang »

treyfitty wrote: post #94

I’ve been interviewing for 8 months. Getting to many final rounds, 1 lowballed offer, 1 rescinded offer, and it’s playing a mental toll. Today, I got a rejection that went along the lines of “everyone loved you and there was absolutely 0 negative feedback, but we just found a better fit.” I almost broke down, but hid behind a facade of positivity because the long weekend was starting and my kids can’t afford a bummed…

Interviewing is terrible. I'll just say keep your head up and don't let it get to you. It definitely does not have anything to do with your worth.

That said there are a lot of people on HN. I would update your profile with at least your site/resume and what you are looking for.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#108

Post by yrgulation »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #84
yrgulation wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've been doing the look for work grind off and on for a few months. ok i may be living in a bubble or something. where in the world is looking for work in tech a grind?

I probably have a lower tolerance for bullshit both compared to my younger self and compared to most other people. So it's not just the effort of filtering out ridiculous job postings – I'm not going to work for a blockchain equipped, NFT based dog therapy app company, nor do I share your passion in bringing social media to defecation tracking, etc. Now I'm spending some time and landing right into the leetcode queue…

Nuance is everywhere. We all have filters and goals and its important to apply them. If the leetcode queue will get you where you want then thats best. As a matter of principle i dont like it, because i think its too junior - no insult intended. Usually the types of companies that employ this interview technique also suffer from hiring freezes now and then. I skipped all that and went for the go getters. Can you do it? Sure if you pay enough.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#109

Post by dvtrn »

yrgulation wrote: post #24
Trasmatta wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the major reason I haven't been looking for a new job. I haven't been super happy at my current place, but at least I don't have to go through yet another life draining and de-humanizing interviewing process. Not to mention the first 6 months or so at a new job trying to figure out how the internal politics work. "Better the devil you know" and all that.

> but at least I don't have to go through yet another life draining and de-humanizing interviewing process. Stop interviewing at code assembly lines? There are loads of sane places to work at with sane interviews and great tech and pay. FAANG and similar are undergoing a slow rot. You’ll do fine.

Is there some magical keyword or ‘tell’ that you’ve zeroed in on and want to share with the rest of us when looking at a job ad to tell if it’s a “code assembly line” or not before applying?

From the rest of your comments you seem pretty confident and specific about not having these problems, so I’m curious to know what’s in your secret sauce.

Re: If You Want This Job, We Must Interview You Forever

#110

Post by throwawaysleep »

treyfitty wrote: post #94

I’ve been interviewing for 8 months. Getting to many final rounds, 1 lowballed offer, 1 rescinded offer, and it’s playing a mental toll. Today, I got a rejection that went along the lines of “everyone loved you and there was absolutely 0 negative feedback, but we just found a better fit.” I almost broke down, but hid behind a facade of positivity because the long weekend was starting and my kids can’t afford a bummed…

This is why I just interview endlessly. At least one a week. You need to develop a callus to interviewing.

Find the time for it by rubber stamping a few code reviews.

It gets boring after a while. Just a very repetitive process after 100 or so.

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