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Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

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Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#231

Post by mastazi »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #184
LAC-Tech wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why the reference to Geordies - natives of Newcastle - when the plant is in Sunderland? Google maps tells me those two places are only 14.3 miles away. So 1) that's pretty understandable to conflate and 2) a lot of people from Newcastle probably commute there.

My experience with the British is they frequently have stark rival differences in cultural identity based on which part of which city they live.

I'm Italian and we have a similar situation, things like e.g. heated rivalry between two towns that are 15 km apart.

This can go very deep because as you know (but may be surprising to our American friends) in Europe we have much less cultural uniformity.

For example, in the two towns in Central Italy that I'm thinking about, which are only 15 km apart, people speak completely different dialects that are only partially intelligible one another.

A fun fact is that now I live in Australia which is one of the countries in the world with the least variance in accent. You can't tell Sydney and Perth accents apart, even though the two cities are thousands of kms apart.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#232

Post by manimino »

cxr wrote: post #164
bob1029 wrote: post #10

I worked at the Samsung A2/S2 lines in ATX with a bunch of young Americans back around 2011-2013. I would say they absolutely would. It's a very high-energy place with more going on than you can ever hope to keep track of. Even if the technology doesn't interest you, the cultural interactions should. You could have some days with Japanese, Koreans and Americans translating 3-ways in a conference room. Opportunities f…

I can't corroborate this at all. I come from a CS background. If you leave school and enter the workforce at SAS, you will be at a disadvantage insofar as you are looking for a workplace that you hope to learn something from or one that you hope reinforces good engineering practices. The semiconductor industry, from the vantage point of an experienced systems thinker, reinforces awful engineering practices. All the t…

Ahh, "SAS" here refers to Samsung Austin Semiconductor.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#233

Post by coldtea »

okdood64 wrote: post #114
bobthepanda wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, Toyota and Hyundai make cars in the South, so that particular lesson has been learned before

Are we lumping up modern Japanese, Korean and Taiwanese culture into one now?

From a western perspective, everything people say about the Chinese (regarding culture, "bad products", cheap immitations, low quality, and so on) had been said about the Japanese in the 50s to 70s, the Taiwanese 80s to 90s, and the Koreans 90s to 00ss. In all cases it was followed by "they are now better and cheaper than us" and "they take our jobs".

Besides, this discussion is not about their respective cultures in general, but about manufacturing styles and working conditions, which are indeed, and even by necessity, similar.

Not that they don't also have shared history, interactions and cultural exchanges going back thousands of years. So, yeah, even that would be more like comparing Argentina and Uruguay, or comparing US and Canada, or France and Belgium, and so on, than some unfathomable comparison.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#234

Post by bee_rider »

pessimizer wrote: post #212
AngryData wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think sitting in a chair is even comparable to move hundred or thousands of pounds of work materials at a time, being bent or twisted into access holes, being exposed to various construction dusts and materials, or even just working in often excessively hot or cold environments?

I think it's worth looking at, rather than making an assumption. Tradespeople are a lot more physically fit than the median office drone. I had abs when I worked on the factory floor, when I was promoted to the offices, I put on 40 lbs.

Thanks for at least considering it!

It looks like jobs which have lots of physical labor are generally correlated with other traits that tend to lower lifespan, so people who do lots of physical labor do end up dying earlier. Mea culpa.

On the other hand, if you control for lifestyle, the people who do physical labor live longer.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/02/well/move/work-exercise-h...

Among Norwegian men at least.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#235

Post by jason-phillips »

I worked at Samsung Austin Semiconductor for a decade. Samsung treated me extremely well and I really do consider them to be like family.

Samsung is not like American semiconductor manufacturers. The organization is a bit more militaristic and that's not a bad thing, I liked the discipline displayed by fellow coworkers.

I haven't worked at American semiconductor manufacturers, but know those who have. Their attitude about execution always struck me as less than professional. But again, I can't comment from first-hand knowledge.

Unlike sbx's experience, I was able to shape things and take ownership. I owned or had responsibility for many of the internal fab systems. I created my own kingdom, ensuring it ran like a Swiss watch, against which transgressions were met with something akin to judiciously tempered wrath. I was basically left alone to ensure my responsibilities were well-managed.

I loved it. I was able to work on global, billion-dollar software projects that indirectly helped change the world, through the semiconductors we produced. It's hard to describe the magnitude of a fab's operations if you haven't seen it firsthand. SAS does conduct tours in Austin; I can see if I can get you into one of those if you can't by simply calling them up yourself.

I miss it.

AMA. I'm about to take off from ABIA but I can answer questions later. I do believe we need more domestic semiconductor manufacturing here, so I'd be glad to help.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#236

Post by jprd »

californical wrote: post #228
imgabe wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re looking at this from the wrong perspective. If your other option is to be a FAANG software engineer, sure, do that instead. For the vast swathes of the country where the available jobs are some mix of retail/warehouse low wage drudgery, long haul trucking, drug dealing / fraud / other crime, or welfare, working in semiconductors might be a welcome and attractive option.

“Better than welfare or crime” doesn’t really sell me that it’s a great option

You're replying from a place where you have OTHER options.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#237

Post by nickff »

californical wrote: post #228
imgabe wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re looking at this from the wrong perspective. If your other option is to be a FAANG software engineer, sure, do that instead. For the vast swathes of the country where the available jobs are some mix of retail/warehouse low wage drudgery, long haul trucking, drug dealing / fraud / other crime, or welfare, working in semiconductors might be a welcome and attractive option.

“Better than welfare or crime” doesn’t really sell me that it’s a great option

We should compare people's actual options, and not fall victim to the nirvana fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#238

Post by etempleton »

jleyank wrote: post #2

I think it will come down to money. People work with hot tar in the blazing sun for money, and toil in Amazon warehouses for money. Make it worth people's while and yeah, they'll work in semiconducting manufacturing.

It is funny how simple it really is. Everyone has a price and every job has a price. If people can get a better paying job under roughly equivalent working conditions they will do that. When I hear people complain that they can’t find good help it makes me laugh. The answer is and always has been the same.

I am interested in what percentage of these jobs will be able to be filled by individuals with a high school diploma or associates degree.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#239

Post by bmitc »

The world is, in general, in trouble. We are absolutely obsessed with scale at all costs, and the costs will be humans and a lot of other things in the wake, as already apparent. Humans are not meant for “at scale” activities because they require things like that found in Amazon fulfillment centers or Apple’s iPhone factories. They are tedious, monotonous, and soulless jobs that are heading for more and more automation.

Re: Will young Americans want to work in semiconductor manufacturing? [video]

#240

Post by elteto »

BeetleB wrote: post #120
logicchains wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As an outsider, it seems pretty clear that the rejection to the industry is more about the cultural mismatch than it is to the actual work needing to be executed. Look at Intel. It's a western company, but it famously fell behind its competitors due to offering comparatively shit pay and conditions to its staff, so the best people left. The problem is hardware company culture, not Asian company culture. Apple's M1 i…

Apple's M1 is an irrelevant comparison. Apple doesn't run a fab. Yes, Intel lost a lot of chip designers, etc, but the submission is about fab related work, which Apple is not involved in.

Seeing how Intel hemorrhaged talent that went straight to their competitors, like Apple, I’d say your distinction is not very relevant.
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