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Cannabis legalization decreases stock market value of major pharmaceutical firms

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Re: Cannabis legalization decreases stock market value of major pharmaceutical firms

#181

Post by encryptluks2 »

iroh2727 wrote: post #151

We don’t need silly statistics to show this. It’s just common sense. I mean, if alcohol were banned, that would send pharmaceutical sales through the roof since we’d lose our most common medication for anxiety, depression, burnout, and general this-hustle-culture-is-fucking-people-up disorder (GTD is the technical term).

> I mean, if alcohol were banned, that would send pharmaceutical sales through the roof since we’d lose our most common medication for anxiety, depression, burnout, and general this-hustle-culture-is-fucking-people-up disorder (GTD is the technical term).

I actually get the opposite impression.

Re: Cannabis legalization decreases stock market value of major pharmaceutical firms

#182

Post by [deleted] »

suoduandao2 wrote: post #126
gruez wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a subset of whose yearly profit of $35B dwarfs the revenue of entire sectors of our economy. (Cable news: less than $6B revenue.) Is that supposed to be a problem? You can argue that pharama companies are extracting too much profit for what they do, but they certainly deliver more value to society in my mind than cable news.

Cable news may be a bad example if we're talking about positive value delivered to society. But how much of the health benefits from modern sanitation are modern pharmaceuticals taking credit for? It seems an unreliable value proposition, particularly given how many new medications study-shop when comparing against existing ones.

[deleted]

Re: Cannabis legalization decreases stock market value of major pharmaceutical firms

#183

Post by encryptluks2 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #102
loudmax wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine it has a lot to do with the type of pain. I don't think I'd want canniboids for a sharp pain, and certainly not for anything intense. But for a chronic pain or some kind of ache where you're taking medication over a long term, a daily dose of cannabis has got to be much better than any kind of opiate.

Nah, I have chronic pain. Muscle stuff (back, hips). And arthritis. They're insantly worse the moment I consume. I know it's hard for those who enjoy cannabis to understand this. But for me it's a highly unpleasant drug. Maybe the most unpleasant of the various recreational substances I've taken over the year. For me it's pain and paranoia. In the milieux I was in in my 20s it was constantly around, and wow, was I ev…

I used to be a frequent user, and began to have the same issue where it would make my pain feel worse. I took a long break and recently tried again and actually noticed quite a bit of relief from pain. I think there are a lot of factors at play here including how it is consumed, strain, mental state, etc.

Re: Cannabis legalization decreases stock market value of major pharmaceutical firms

#184

Post by cantSpellSober »

pmoleri wrote: post #157
cantSpellSober wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but "the reason why is not clear" and "a direct causal link cannot be established"

Sarcasm, right?

Worthless comment, right? If you'd read the link you'd know I'm quoting directly. It cites studies, like this one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4392651/

...which declares other correlations: "cannabis use has been linked with increased use of other drugs, including opioids" again adding "however, a causal relationship has not been established." Should we assume the bad stuff is causal, too? I don't believe we should.

Re: Cannabis legalization decreases stock market value of major pharmaceutical firms

#185

Post by avgDev »

treeman79 wrote: post #99
jnovek wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not completely useless, but I agree that we overprescribe them. I had a kidney stone with complications that required three procedures to take care of. The only thing that would touch that pain was opioids. It was a miserable experience and, thanks to the opioids, I essentially have a four-month hole in my memory. They made me nauseous, dizzy and cognitively useless. I had to titrate off of them because I had…

Have a mix of nerve pain and a number of kidney stones. A bad kidney stone will leave you suicidal after awhile. Tramadol was only thing that go me through those. Nerve pain is harder as it’s long term. Never as bad as a kidney stone. But it is it something you can live with indefinitely. Tramadol works. But then you get long term addiction. I would stop for a month every few months just to detox some. Eventually I d…

I have some nerve pain. I tried LDN for maybe a month and it did nothing for me. What dosage are you and how long have you been taking it before seeing an improvement?

Re: Cannabis legalization decreases stock market value of major pharmaceutical firms

#186

Post by yodsanklai »

nobody9999 wrote: post #173
jnovek wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not completely useless, but I agree that we overprescribe them. I had a kidney stone with complications that required three procedures to take care of. The only thing that would touch that pain was opioids. It was a miserable experience and, thanks to the opioids, I essentially have a four-month hole in my memory. They made me nauseous, dizzy and cognitively useless. I had to titrate off of them because I had…

>The only thing that would touch that pain was opioids. I had a similar experience, albeit (and thankfully so) much more short term. I had spine surgery (lumbar laminotomy[0]) to address spinal stenosis[1] that significantly weakened my right leg and was prescribed oxycodone after the surgery. I had prepared for this by acquiring significant amounts of cannabis (concentrate, butter and flower) to address the pain, bu…

> cannabis was insufficient to address the pain.

Not only cannabis isn't a good painkiller, but it comes with very strong side-effects: it makes you totally unable to do any activity. This is fine for a recreational usage, but for a therapeutic usage, it's a serious problem. Especially when alternatives exist.

Re: Cannabis legalization decreases stock market value of major pharmaceutical firms

#187

Post by UnpossibleJim »

freedomben wrote: post #49
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #36

Surely I'm not the only person for who cannabis just makes pain far worse. In fact I know I'm not I've heard it from other people. Opiates are spooky, but ... they work really well.

You're not the only one - it does me as well. But unfortunately, the people who make the rules don't care about our suffering.

What an odd statement. I had shoulder surgery not all that long ago and they prescribed me 100 Oxy's (far too many) and I took one of them. I was woken up with waves of paranoia and nausea... obviously the dosage was too high. I'm 5'7 and 170-180 lbs, so not large. I took Acetaminophen for about a week and was fine.

If I was to say that no one cared about suffering because people are prescribed Oxy for pain simply because it makes me nauseas and paranoid, that would be ridiculous on its face. People simply react differently to different medications, including marijuana.

Re: Cannabis legalization decreases stock market value of major pharmaceutical firms

#188

Post by samatman »

thebigjewbowski wrote: post #179
jnovek wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not completely useless, but I agree that we overprescribe them. I had a kidney stone with complications that required three procedures to take care of. The only thing that would touch that pain was opioids. It was a miserable experience and, thanks to the opioids, I essentially have a four-month hole in my memory. They made me nauseous, dizzy and cognitively useless. I had to titrate off of them because I had…

I’m always curious about using ketamine for situations like this. I’ve found that with medical marijuana you still feel the pain but you just don’t care because you’re stoned, granted I haven’t had pain such as yours. With ketamine, at low doses you get a disassociated effect without much cognitive load but I haven’t taken it when I was in pain and unfortunately don’t have ready access to it anymore. I’d taken Vicodi…

I can answer this actually.

I bulged a disk in my back, new job, no health insurance. My boss was a friend and knew I was a weirdo. I would bike (!) to work, take a keytip of ketamine, program for about an hour, lay down, do a gravity inversion (had one shipped to the house we were using as an office), do another minimal key, I could get three, maybe four of those out of a day.

I hate the effect of opiates except for the part where they make physical pain go away, and even if I had a doctor at the time, to get a scrip, it was a non starter for getting work done.

Worked out ok, still use a standing desk, lift weights, my back has been at least nominal every since, no surgery. I don't recommend it, the bulging disk part, and I'm not here advocate for off-label use of controlled substances, ketamine is habit-forming and can be quite destructive. It was effective however.

Re: Cannabis legalization decreases stock market value of major pharmaceutical firms

#189

Post by soared »

yodsanklai wrote: post #186
nobody9999 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The only thing that would touch that pain was opioids. I had a similar experience, albeit (and thankfully so) much more short term. I had spine surgery (lumbar laminotomy[0]) to address spinal stenosis[1] that significantly weakened my right leg and was prescribed oxycodone after the surgery. I had prepared for this by acquiring significant amounts of cannabis (concentrate, butter and flower) to address the pain, bu…

> cannabis was insufficient to address the pain. Not only cannabis isn't a good painkiller, but it comes with very strong side-effects: it makes you totally unable to do any activity. This is fine for a recreational usage, but for a therapeutic usage, it's a serious problem. Especially when alternatives exist.

Totally unable to do any activity is not a side affect of cannabis. If that happens to you, you’ve taken too much.

Re: Cannabis legalization decreases stock market value of major pharmaceutical firms

#190

Post by nobody9999 »

yodsanklai wrote: post #186
nobody9999 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The only thing that would touch that pain was opioids. I had a similar experience, albeit (and thankfully so) much more short term. I had spine surgery (lumbar laminotomy[0]) to address spinal stenosis[1] that significantly weakened my right leg and was prescribed oxycodone after the surgery. I had prepared for this by acquiring significant amounts of cannabis (concentrate, butter and flower) to address the pain, bu…

> cannabis was insufficient to address the pain. Not only cannabis isn't a good painkiller, but it comes with very strong side-effects: it makes you totally unable to do any activity. This is fine for a recreational usage, but for a therapeutic usage, it's a serious problem. Especially when alternatives exist.

>Not only cannabis isn't a good painkiller, but it comes with very strong side-effects: it makes you totally unable to do any activity. This is fine for a recreational usage, but for a therapeutic usage, it's a serious problem. Especially when alternatives exist.

I disagree. There are varying levels of pain. The pain from being cut open and (metaphorically speaking) my spine scraped out with gardening tools, then being stitched up again is much more significant than pain from muscle aches, mild nerve pain and many other sources.

Cannabis was insufficient (for me) immediately (and for a couple days) after surgery. However, it was absolutely sufficient after three or four days.

Yes, the psychotropic effects can be debilitating, but that's not true for everyone.

N.B.: The observations below are anecdata, so obviously YMMV.

I find (as an InfoSec/Infrastructure guy) that I can't give the level of focus required to do my job effectively if I use cannabis regularly.

However, I know several lawyers and other folks with mentally rigorous professions that use cannabis multiple times daily and are able to function reasonably well. Note (as I mention above) that I am not one of those people.

The impact of cannabis on an individual is subjective and nuanced, so I don't accept your assertion that "[cannabis] makes you totally unable to do any activity."

In fact, different strains of cannabis (presumably based on THC/CBD/other cannabinoids levels) have different effects on different people.

I don't doubt your (and/or others you know) experience has been that cannabis is disabling. But that's not true for everyone in every circumstance.

Which is why I strongly believe (as I stated in the comment to which you replied) that cannabis and the chemicals it contains should be thoroughly researched to determine its impacts, both positive and negative.

tl;dr: I disagree with your statement because it was categorical, not that it was necessarily wrong in all cases.

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