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Apache considered harmful

mikealrogers.com

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Re: Apache considered harmful

#31

Post by sliverstorm »

visural wrote: post #19
jaaron wrote: post #15

Ok, there's a lot to cover here. First off, the Apache Software Foundation isn't trying to absorb anyone or anything. Projects and people come to the ASF. It's a specific policy of the Foundation to NOT solicit projects. If someone says they're representing Apache and soliciting projects, they're wrong. Secondly, Apache is very opinionated about how projects should be run. This comes from years of experience as not o…

While correct, it would benefit Apache in the long run to foster better communities and tools for their projects to grow. While they provide value in terms of the protection/process/management it's all for nothing if the developers can't collaborate effectively. GitHub has changed many developer's UX of opensource development to the point that they don't want to do it "the old way". Apache should be looking to grow i…

Trouble is, their existing developers and projects seem to be doing fine with SVN. Don't forget those are the most important people, the workhorses you already have- not the flighty young birds you hope to one day trap.

Sure, there is always the future to think about, but the future isn't happening a week from now. They have time to watch Git grow and wait until the time is right.

Re: Apache considered harmful

#32

Post by buff-a »

tptacek wrote: post #29
buff-a wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason apache can't maintain its own "legally authorative" git repo. Nothing in the authors post suggest that he is confusing the ASF with a "coding sandbox". Making that claim suggests to me that you are invested in the alternative and not thinking objectively. And I disagree about subversion being "made for Apache in the way Linus made git for Linux". Subversion is an utterly derivative implementation of…

I'm not totally familiar with the issues here, but from an earlier perusal of the email threads on this, it seems like ASF's concern involves things like git's ability to edit the repository history.

Oh, I can think of a million scary sounding consequences of using git and I'm sure that all were raised. This is what established groups do when confronted with change: raise any objection even though a moments thought demonstrates the paucity of its merits.

Re: Apache considered harmful

#33

Post by blasdel »

jaaron wrote: post #15

Ok, there's a lot to cover here. First off, the Apache Software Foundation isn't trying to absorb anyone or anything. Projects and people come to the ASF. It's a specific policy of the Foundation to NOT solicit projects. If someone says they're representing Apache and soliciting projects, they're wrong. Secondly, Apache is very opinionated about how projects should be run. This comes from years of experience as not o…

The ASF isn't where projects go to "grow up". It's mostly where companies like IBM go to dump their enterprisey Java frameworks so they can be marketed as ostensibly open to outside developers.

Re: Apache considered harmful

#34

Post by DannoHung »

tptacek wrote: post #29
buff-a wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason apache can't maintain its own "legally authorative" git repo. Nothing in the authors post suggest that he is confusing the ASF with a "coding sandbox". Making that claim suggests to me that you are invested in the alternative and not thinking objectively. And I disagree about subversion being "made for Apache in the way Linus made git for Linux". Subversion is an utterly derivative implementation of…

I'm not totally familiar with the issues here, but from an earlier perusal of the email threads on this, it seems like ASF's concern involves things like git's ability to edit the repository history.

I'm not super familiar with subversion's internals, but couldn't a malicious user edit a subversion repo history?

Re: Apache considered harmful

#35

Post by apike »

The ASF is the first home that comes to mind when an successful open-source project needs independent stewardship. Often when a company wants to "spin off" an open source project, they turn to Apache.

What alternative organizations fill this need in a more lightweight fashion? Most other umbrella open source organizations I know of focus on copyleft and other issues that can be hostile to commercial interests.

Re: Apache considered harmful

#36

Post by mapgrep »

jaaron wrote: post #15

Ok, there's a lot to cover here. First off, the Apache Software Foundation isn't trying to absorb anyone or anything. Projects and people come to the ASF. It's a specific policy of the Foundation to NOT solicit projects. If someone says they're representing Apache and soliciting projects, they're wrong. Secondly, Apache is very opinionated about how projects should be run. This comes from years of experience as not o…

There's actually not a lot to cover here? The question is why you're so scared of git and in six paragraphs you managed NOT to answer that question. This is really sad. One might hope an open source fondation would be forthright and fairly transparent. Apparently not.

Re: Apache considered harmful

#37

Post by inopinatus »

This essay put me in mind of The Cathedral and the Bazaar. It is a neat demonstration of how tools and processes are inextricably linked.

Who knew, though, that the ASF would be cast as the new priests in the cathedral? I suppose it took a whole new level of social development, enabled by tools, to cast them in that role.

Re: Apache considered harmful

#38

Post by greatquux »

compay wrote: post #17

Hate to be the grammar cop here, but the consistent misspelling of "its" in the article is distracting. If the author is here, could you please fix that? It's taking away from a very well-written and insightful piece of writing.

I stopped reading at the misuse of weary for wary.

Re: Apache considered harmful

#40

Post by tptacek »

buff-a wrote: post #32
tptacek wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not totally familiar with the issues here, but from an earlier perusal of the email threads on this, it seems like ASF's concern involves things like git's ability to edit the repository history.

Oh, I can think of a million scary sounding consequences of using git and I'm sure that all were raised. This is what established groups do when confronted with change: raise any objection even though a moments thought demonstrates the paucity of its merits.

That moment of thought was apparently too expensive for you; you didn't respond to the actual concern, but rather raised an argument suggesting that any argument about git must be meritless.

I don't know who you expect to convince by baying at the moon.

The ASF people are right in at least one sense: if you don't want to run projects in the ASF style, you are free to take your work elsewhere.

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