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Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#171

Post by yamtaddle »

core-utility wrote: post #17
toomuchtodo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free market would grind every last human into powder if it could. Labor regulations exist because you can’t trust humans to be various degrees of moral, decent, and empathetic. If labor regulations ratchet the work week down, you’d be free to offer 32 hour work weeks to employees, and pay them for overtime beyond that. Productivity has exploded over the last four decades (across various economies, developed and d…

Humans are free to enter contracts of their own choosing, not forced by arbitrary government regulations. As many other commenters here have pointed out, negotiating oneself to a 4 day workweek (or other offers) is possible. I for one, choose to not take the 20% pay cut and will happily work a 40 hour work week. That's my choice.

> Humans are free to enter contracts of their own choosing, not forced by arbitrary government regulations.

Difficulty: their counter-parties are often creations of "arbitrary government regulations" (corporations).

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#172

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

lm28469 wrote: post #75
sokoloff wrote: post #11

In some places in Europe, after some period of employment, you can demand of your employer to let you work 80% of hours for 80% of pay. I have team members in Europe on this schedule and it works out well for everyone. Based on that experience, I'd also be open to such an arrangement for employees based in geographies where that's not legally required, but is legally and practically permitted. My guess is that most p…

> My guess is that most people are working a 5-day workweek because they're most comfortable doing that People are always surprised when I tell them I work 4 days a week; asking if I have kids or a sick mother to attend to. Recruiters are especially weird with questions like: "why do you only want to work 4 days a week?" I usually just reply "Why do you want to work 5 days a week?", most of the time they don't know w…

I think you’ll find recruiters expect things from you that they can’t or won’t do themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#173

Post by [deleted] »

x86x87 wrote: post #76
systemvoltage wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer working all the time. It is way more fun to build stuff, especially if that's your own company.

Nope. Your system is flawed because you cannot extended it to all of our society. It's great it works for you but that's about it.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#174

Post by LesZedCB »

pwinnski wrote: post #70
slively wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attributing the 5 day work week to Henry Ford is not placing the credit correctly. He may have been the first big CEO, but it was the work of labor rights activists and unions. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/sep/09/viral-imag...

The trade unionists had been pushing for eight-hour days, not five-day weeks. The thing Ford did largely unprompted was switch from six days to five days. Even your own link seems to confuse the two, but is focused on the eight-hour day part of the original false image.

crediting the person who pulls the levers because they're the only person empowered to pull the levers seems dishonest.

he sure as hell didn't do it out of the goodness of his own heart.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#175

Post by pwinnski »

LesZedCB wrote: post #174
pwinnski wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trade unionists had been pushing for eight-hour days, not five-day weeks. The thing Ford did largely unprompted was switch from six days to five days. Even your own link seems to confuse the two, but is focused on the eight-hour day part of the original false image.

crediting the person who pulls the levers because they're the only person empowered to pull the levers seems dishonest. he sure as hell didn't do it out of the goodness of his own heart.

Sure, as I said in a separate comment, he figured offering a two-day weekend would enable him to push his workers harder so that they got as much done in 48 hours as they had been doing in 48. He was still a profit-seeking capitalist, but he was considerably more forward-thinking than the majority of CEOs today, and acted far in advance of any legal requirement to do so, albeit far later than unions wanted him to.

He deserves some credit, which is what I gave him.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#176

Post by tastyfreeze »

iroh2727 wrote: post #95
core-utility wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are free to enter contracts of their own choosing, not forced by arbitrary government regulations. As many other commenters here have pointed out, negotiating oneself to a 4 day workweek (or other offers) is possible. I for one, choose to not take the 20% pay cut and will happily work a 40 hour work week. That's my choice.

Some individuals, in some particular professions, may have this choice. But there are structural forces preventing this on a population level. Most people in the US live paycheck to paycheck as is, and it's not that they're spending frivolously. Our standards of living are based on what's needed for subsistence, yes, but also cultural and historical. Based on how we grew up and how our parents grew up, and how cultur…

We also have legislation that makes it illegal for people to sell food or perform particular services without meeting a large number of requirements. Regulations are costly, inhibit competition, restrict available employment options and largely fail to achieve the desired outcome.

Big business protectionism results in big business abuse of employees because a "where else are the going to go" mentality sets in. Competition is required to allow people to build businesses that put the "employee abusing" companies out of business.

Protectionism comes in many forms but all of it comes from government. Big businesses are currently supporting an increase in the national minimum wage. They can afford to pay their employees more. Their competitors can't. With no competition the big business are free to abuse their employees. Nearly every business that has lobbied for government regulation is playing this same game to secure their place as king of the hill.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#177

Post by toomuchtodo »

ceeplusplus wrote: post #124
iroh2727 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some individuals, in some particular professions, may have this choice. But there are structural forces preventing this on a population level. Most people in the US live paycheck to paycheck as is, and it's not that they're spending frivolously. Our standards of living are based on what's needed for subsistence, yes, but also cultural and historical. Based on how we grew up and how our parents grew up, and how cultur…

Compare the Chinese household savings rate to the American one, and I think you'll find people in the US do indeed spend frivolously. Note that living in HCOL locations beyond your means is still spending frivolously. You don't have a right to live in NYC or SF. If more people realized that, then supply of low wage workers would drop in these places and wages would go up.

The Chinese public have invested in quicksand represented as a low quality housing stock pyramid scheme the CCP is barely holding together with control economy duct tape. Perhaps domestic consumption is lower than the US is due to this higher savings rate, but lets not pretend that savings is going into productive enterprises.

With China aging very rapidly and a total fertility rate that will decline below 1 in the next 2-5 years, doesn’t make much sense to save for a future with limited returns (time value of life vs money and so forth).

https://archive.ph/2022.05.23-232226/https://www.bloomberg.c...

> Home prices in China have been falling since September, Chinese stocks and mutual funds aren’t great bets these days either, there’s little access to international markets and cryptocurrencies are officially illegal. Instead, people are increasingly shelving their money in savings accounts, despite benchmark deposit rates staying at record low levels.

> “No matter if you’re high net-worth or not that rich, the golden time of parking your money and letting your wealth grow, it’s gone,” said Wei He, an economist at Gavekal Research Ltd. in Beijing.

> “There’s no other investment options,” said Clawde Yin, a 45-year-old Shanghai resident. “I’ve got no choice but to wait and see.”

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#178

Post by LesZedCB »

pwinnski wrote: post #175
LesZedCB wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

crediting the person who pulls the levers because they're the only person empowered to pull the levers seems dishonest. he sure as hell didn't do it out of the goodness of his own heart.

Sure, as I said in a separate comment, he figured offering a two-day weekend would enable him to push his workers harder so that they got as much done in 48 hours as they had been doing in 48. He was still a profit-seeking capitalist, but he was considerably more forward-thinking than the majority of CEOs today, and acted far in advance of any legal requirement to do so, albeit far later than unions wanted him to. He…

> albeit far later than unions wanted him to.

there we go. I don't know why acquiescence counts as creditable but whatever.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#179

Post by vgchh »

This is likely going to be controversial. I am all for more time off. But the way the world is evolving, to maintain its competitiveness, America cants really afford to be slacking any further. Ultimately, it’s the work of the people that transforms a country and I am afraid, America is working less harder!

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#180

Post by LittlePeter »

On a side note, has anyone ever negotiated an effective raise by asking for 100% salary for an 80% employment?

- "We're sorry but your salary range is above what we are willing to offer."

- "I am prepared to accept your upper range salary for 80% employment."

- "Deal!"

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