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Two Mexican drug cartels came to dominate America’s fentanyl supply

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Re: Two Mexican drug cartels came to dominate America’s fentanyl supply

#21

Post by teddyh »

erdos4d wrote: post #12
ifsothen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a lot of that violence spills over the border into the US. Bloody cartel murders, extortion, and such are common in the southwest US and beyond. The Mexican government and politicians are all somewhere in between being controlled by the cartels and too scared to do anything about them. That is casus belli , legal grounds for war, by any reasonable understanding of international law.

If the US actually started using its military to hit these guys, what would stop them from sending a thousand guys into a large chemical or nuclear plant and creating a disaster that wiped out a city, or more? I find this sort of jingo rhetoric disturbing because the US has never faced an enemy with thousands of troops inside the US and the funding of a nation state. I can imagine an idiot like Trump actually startin…

> If the US actually started using its military to hit these guys, what would stop them from sending a thousand guys into a large chemical or nuclear plant and creating a disaster that wiped out a city, or more?

I mean, yes, they could, but would they? What would be the realistic result of such an action? Would the US then stop and go “Well, I guess we’ll have to stop antagonizing the cartels.”. I would guess that such a thing would instead be a Pearl Harbor moment, and I think the cartels know this, too. The cartels don’t want to act out your personal nightmare scenario; they want to do things to make the US stop bothering the cartels. Instead of mindlessly scare-mongering, figure out what that action would be, and ask yourself if a war with the cartels is worth it. It might or might not be, but be realistic about it.

Re: Two Mexican drug cartels came to dominate America’s fentanyl supply

#22

Post by chasd00 »

ifsothen wrote: post #18
erdos4d wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US actually started using its military to hit these guys, what would stop them from sending a thousand guys into a large chemical or nuclear plant and creating a disaster that wiped out a city, or more? I find this sort of jingo rhetoric disturbing because the US has never faced an enemy with thousands of troops inside the US and the funding of a nation state. I can imagine an idiot like Trump actually startin…

It's not "jingo rhetoric." Many of the government leaders south of the border are literally in cahoots with the cartels to commit thousands of murders a year, either directly or through peddling fentanyl, in the US. The rest of them have decided to go along with it out of fear. That is an act of war. The US should respond wisely and carefully, but people should remember these are literally ongoing acts of war committ…

a war with Mexico (or any significant military intervention) means 1000x more people stream over the Southern border compared to now.

Re: Two Mexican drug cartels came to dominate America’s fentanyl supply

#23

Post by MichaelCollins »

ifsothen wrote: post #8
irthomasthomas wrote: post #5

Quoted post unavailable.

And a lot of that violence spills over the border into the US. Bloody cartel murders, extortion, and such are common in the southwest US and beyond. The Mexican government and politicians are all somewhere in between being controlled by the cartels and too scared to do anything about them. That is casus belli , legal grounds for war, by any reasonable understanding of international law.

> That is casus belli, legal grounds for war, by any reasonable understanding of international law.

Perhaps. But anything the US Military could do about it would only make the problem even worse. It being a legal reason for war is irrelevant because it isn't a rational reason for war.

Re: Two Mexican drug cartels came to dominate America’s fentanyl supply

#24

Post by soperj »

ifsothen wrote: post #18
erdos4d wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US actually started using its military to hit these guys, what would stop them from sending a thousand guys into a large chemical or nuclear plant and creating a disaster that wiped out a city, or more? I find this sort of jingo rhetoric disturbing because the US has never faced an enemy with thousands of troops inside the US and the funding of a nation state. I can imagine an idiot like Trump actually startin…

It's not "jingo rhetoric." Many of the government leaders south of the border are literally in cahoots with the cartels to commit thousands of murders a year, either directly or through peddling fentanyl, in the US. The rest of them have decided to go along with it out of fear. That is an act of war. The US should respond wisely and carefully, but people should remember these are literally ongoing acts of war committ…

In this sense, Americans funding the cartels through drug buying is also an act of war.

Re: Two Mexican drug cartels came to dominate America’s fentanyl supply

#25

Post by wavefunction »

ifsothen wrote: post #8
irthomasthomas wrote: post #5

Quoted post unavailable.

And a lot of that violence spills over the border into the US. Bloody cartel murders, extortion, and such are common in the southwest US and beyond. The Mexican government and politicians are all somewhere in between being controlled by the cartels and too scared to do anything about them. That is casus belli , legal grounds for war, by any reasonable understanding of international law.

Common? That's some outrageous hyperbole. Claims about casus belli against Mexico, America's largest trading partner? Now you've indicted your own intellectual capabilities.

Re: Two Mexican drug cartels came to dominate America’s fentanyl supply

#26

Post by pjc50 »

ifsothen wrote: post #8
irthomasthomas wrote: post #5

Quoted post unavailable.

And a lot of that violence spills over the border into the US. Bloody cartel murders, extortion, and such are common in the southwest US and beyond. The Mexican government and politicians are all somewhere in between being controlled by the cartels and too scared to do anything about them. That is casus belli , legal grounds for war, by any reasonable understanding of international law.

I guess Iraq worked so well, the US wants to occupy Mexico? Again?

Re: Two Mexican drug cartels came to dominate America’s fentanyl supply

#27

Post by mminer237 »

voisin wrote: post #19
erdos4d wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Not op but legalizing drugs to purify the supply chain, collect taxes, and give people a safe place to do the things they would otherwise do anyways seems like efficient allocation of resources with the benefit of starving the cartels.

I don't think legalizing fentanyl is a good idea at all. Look at how many people were killed by easy access to Oxycodone.

It's said that one use of heroin will turn someone into an addict, and something like 2% of opioid addicts die per year. Legalizing drugs may make things safer per person, but it will also increase the number of users. Legalizing fentanyl would just flood the streets with something even more potent than heroin and get millions more addicted.

Re: Two Mexican drug cartels came to dominate America’s fentanyl supply

#28

Post by MichaelCollins »

teddyh wrote: post #21
erdos4d wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US actually started using its military to hit these guys, what would stop them from sending a thousand guys into a large chemical or nuclear plant and creating a disaster that wiped out a city, or more? I find this sort of jingo rhetoric disturbing because the US has never faced an enemy with thousands of troops inside the US and the funding of a nation state. I can imagine an idiot like Trump actually startin…

> If the US actually started using its military to hit these guys, what would stop them from sending a thousand guys into a large chemical or nuclear plant and creating a disaster that wiped out a city, or more? I mean, yes, they could , but would they? What would be the realistic result of such an action? Would the US then stop and go “Well, I guess we’ll have to stop antagonizing the cartels.”. I would guess that s…

> I would guess that such a thing would instead be a Pearl Harbor moment, and I think the cartels know this, too.

What else might that war teach us?

There are 10 million Mexican-Americans by birth in America, and 37 million by ancestry. If America went to war with Mexico, I fear there would be efforts to intern Mexican-Americans as Japanese-Americans once were.

Such a war is a horrible idea for everybody. It would create conditions in Mexico and America that are far worse than the present status quo.

Re: Two Mexican drug cartels came to dominate America’s fentanyl supply

#29

Post by erdos4d »

teddyh wrote: post #21
erdos4d wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US actually started using its military to hit these guys, what would stop them from sending a thousand guys into a large chemical or nuclear plant and creating a disaster that wiped out a city, or more? I find this sort of jingo rhetoric disturbing because the US has never faced an enemy with thousands of troops inside the US and the funding of a nation state. I can imagine an idiot like Trump actually startin…

> If the US actually started using its military to hit these guys, what would stop them from sending a thousand guys into a large chemical or nuclear plant and creating a disaster that wiped out a city, or more? I mean, yes, they could , but would they? What would be the realistic result of such an action? Would the US then stop and go “Well, I guess we’ll have to stop antagonizing the cartels.”. I would guess that s…

I'm talking about if the US already was at war with them and hitting them hard. I don't see what would restrain them at that point.

Re: Two Mexican drug cartels came to dominate America’s fentanyl supply

#30

Post by ct0 »

atwood22 wrote: post #14
gardenfelder wrote: post #2

You cannot have dominant players in a supply chin if there is no demand

The cartels are also extorting avocado farmers for a cut of their profits. It turns out that, if you have a lot of bad people in power, they find ways to do bad things for personal enrichment.

I stopped buying avocados for this reason. Its the only way to win.
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