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Forth Inventor Chuck Moore's $20 144 core CPU now in full production

greenarraychips.com

31–40 of 100 posts

Re: Forth Inventor Chuck Moore's $20 144 core CPU now in full production

#31
post #6

May be if you use 100+ of these (~14400 'computers') you can build a machine with emerging behavior, brain-like?

If 15,000 computers was all you needed for AI, we'd have it by now. Major datacenters have way more machines than that, which are far more powerful than a milliwatt microcontroller to boot.

Re: Forth Inventor Chuck Moore's $20 144 core CPU now in full production

#32
post #4

Love the guy and his passion for its chips, but this 144-computer chip looks like a solution in search of a problem: what is trying to solve? How's the inter-core communication handled? On the other hand, creating weird chips like these, just because you can, is awesome and stimulating a hacker's mind.

"Between nodes there are 18 bit, bidirectional parallel buses called Comm Ports. The handshaking on these ports is trivially simple and the latency and jitter are low, on the order of gate delays, tens of picoseconds. When a node is reading or writing a Comm Port, it proceeds with no delay if its partner is ready to transfer data. If the partner is not yet ready, the node waits until it is. While waiting, a node’s power consumption drops, within picoseconds, to nothing but leakage. When the partner becomes ready the idle node resumes its work within picoseconds."

http://www.greenarraychips.com/home/documents/greg/WP002-100...

Re: Forth Inventor Chuck Moore's $20 144 core CPU now in full production

#34
post #11
post #5

I think the only thing Chuck is missing is a few 20-somethings hackers, bent on solving an 'impossible' problem with his chips.

That's why I'm posting it here. Some possible ideas ==================== - Sound processing (think 144 cores preforming Fourier Transforms) - Pico Satellites (This chip has a surprisingly extreme low power requirement). - Wireless communication (small power requirement means small batteries) - Computer Vision processing. Imagine toys or tools that can process visual information faster than an Xbox. - Basically anythi…

I really hope these have a good application for DSP. I can imagine the sweet homebrew synths that people will be coming up with.

Re: Forth Inventor Chuck Moore's $20 144 core CPU now in full production

#35
post #22
post #3

Let me get this straight: It's basically a microcontroller timed 144? Can anyone explain to a nonhardware geek?

It's the future, representing a convergence between Field Programmable Gate Arrays (FPGAs) and the microprocessor. Gate arrays are vast arrays of logic gates, which can be wired together in almost arbitrary patterns by a sea of "fuses", typically controlled by state stored in on-board SRAM. They are real time and blindingly fast due to their massive parallelism, achieving supercomputer type speeds when applied to the…

>We are now to the point where we have almost more gates than we know what to do with,

limits of von Neumann architecture (and its underlying mathematics of recursive functions) as a mental framework for our thinking about computing.

Re: Forth Inventor Chuck Moore's $20 144 core CPU now in full production

#36
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the future, representing a convergence between Field Programmable Gate Arrays (FPGAs) and the microprocessor. Gate arrays are vast arrays of logic gates, which can be wired together in almost arbitrary patterns by a sea of "fuses", typically controlled by state stored in on-board SRAM. They are real time and blindingly fast due to their massive parallelism, achieving supercomputer type speeds when applied to the…

Unfortunately for the FPGA guys, it seems like in general the closer they get to CPUs the less compelling their product becomes.

I hesitate to divide the world into "FPGA guys" and "non-FPGA guys". It's a continuum of computing power; CPUDSPFPGA, and one moves up and down it as the task varies and technology changes.

If anything defines an "FPGA guy" is choice of language. Historically FPGAs have been programmed with an HDL, such as VHDL or Verilog, because these languages are concurrent meaning they handle parallel systems.

My prediction is that as mainstream multicore CPUs develop we will see the rise of concurrent versions of mainstream languages, which will supplant HDLs. Just as DSP's are now programmed in (almost) vanilla C/C++/..., we will see FPGAs being programmed using the same languages as micros and DSPs. It will then be possible to write code and (almost) seamlessly run it on any platform, depending on how fast it needs to run.

Re: Forth Inventor Chuck Moore's $20 144 core CPU now in full production

#37
post #29

I think this sounds ridiculously cool and at $20 I could probably afford to play around with it. But I have no knowledge of hardware, just programming. To me chips just look like thin green rectangular prisms. How would I get it to actually, you know, do stuff?

You would probably want to buy the Evaluation Board which lets you control the machine using USB ports and an ASCII console.

The thing is, it's just a computer. The real value of this is hooking it to hardware to actually do something. So I suggest starting here instead: http://www.greenarraychips.com/home/documents/budget.html and learning how to work with hardware as well.

Re: Forth Inventor Chuck Moore's $20 144 core CPU now in full production

#38
post #11
post #5

I think the only thing Chuck is missing is a few 20-somethings hackers, bent on solving an 'impossible' problem with his chips.

That's why I'm posting it here. Some possible ideas ==================== - Sound processing (think 144 cores preforming Fourier Transforms) - Pico Satellites (This chip has a surprisingly extreme low power requirement). - Wireless communication (small power requirement means small batteries) - Computer Vision processing. Imagine toys or tools that can process visual information faster than an Xbox. - Basically anythi…

GNU radio

Re: Forth Inventor Chuck Moore's $20 144 core CPU now in full production

#39

Not being much of a hardware geek, I'm having a hard time evaluating how fast each core is. From the site: "With instruction times as low as 1400 picoseconds and consuming as little as 7 picojoules of energy, each of the 144 computers can do its work with unprecedented speed for a microcontroller and yet at unprecedentedly low energy cost, transitioning between running and suspended states in gate delay times. When s…

If 1400 picoseconds is the time it takes for a clock cycle (and therefore the minimum instruction time for 1-cycle instructions), that'd be about 700 MHz, which actually seems pretty high compared to what I would've guessed.

As far as I know, the cores aren't clocked. Instead Chuck designed his own transistors using his own OKAD II VLSI tools to be efficient on the CMOS process node with switching speeds being dictated by the transistor type and interconnect electrical properties, then designed the cores so that they're only switching those transistors when they do actual work.

Re: Forth Inventor Chuck Moore's $20 144 core CPU now in full production

#40
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately for the FPGA guys, it seems like in general the closer they get to CPUs the less compelling their product becomes.

I hesitate to divide the world into "FPGA guys" and "non-FPGA guys". It's a continuum of computing power; CPU DSP FPGA, and one moves up and down it as the task varies and technology changes. If anything defines an "FPGA guy" is choice of language. Historically FPGAs have been programmed with an HDL, such as VHDL or Verilog, because these languages are concurrent meaning they handle parallel systems. My prediction is…

By "FPGA guys" I meant the guys who make FPGAs, not the guys who use them. There is still a pretty strong dividing line between FPGAs and DSP chips.
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