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Surging Energy Prices in Europe in the Aftermath of the War

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Re: Surging Energy Prices in Europe in the Aftermath of the War

#61

Post by occz »

InCityDreams wrote: post #17
michaelbrooks wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, we had a 57% increase in energy bills from July, and we're now looking at another 80% increase from October which is terrifying for a lot of us.

Indoor bicycles are about £100 from decathlon. /serious. I can see a lot of financial problems ahead but equally(?) a lot of people not just sitting on their arses doing sfa. Shopping centres will benefit from extra traffic, but may not necessarily get the cash. People may just wander... I'm working on my W22 strategies now. More home (low key 90/10) exercise, more outside walks, family get togethers (share a house),…

Thermal clothing is probably going to be your highest ROI if you're unironically looking for methods to keep warm this winter while spending less.

Re: Surging Energy Prices in Europe in the Aftermath of the War

#62

Post by sorenjan »

blub wrote: post #51
sorenjan wrote: post #46

This situation is infuriating to me as a Swede. We use basically no natural gas or oil for heating or power production, and right now we're exporting 3.8 GW to other countries, showing that we have a power surplus equaling several nuclear reactors. A few days ago I heard that we where the largest power exporter in Europe. Even so, our power prices are through the roof because the price is set by the high export price…

Perhaps it would soften the blow if one doesn’t think of the present problems as paying for the idiocy of others, but rather as helping fellow Europeans through a potentially long, cold winter. Or helping Ukraine fight for democracy, for freedom, for Europe. I don’t think that in the EU we’ve fully exhausted the benefits of virtue and moral grandstanding, it’s too early to give up or be upset. And Sweden always had a…

Helping others solve their own problems doesn't keep your home warm, or food affordable. This isn't about helping Ukraine, it's about dealing with the aftermath of closing nuclear power, building not one but two natural gas pipelines to Russia, not prioritizing energy efficiency like insulation and heat pumps, and so on. Even before Putin went full crazy climate change was supposed to be a serious crisis.

Edit: I forgot an important point. I don't have anything against exporting power to our neighbors. My issue is that we have to pay the expensive power prices set by the expensive export. Our power hasn't suddenly become 5X-10X more expensive to produce, if we could keep our usual price and sell the surplus to other countries at the prices they want to pay I wouldn't mind it.

Re: Surging Energy Prices in Europe in the Aftermath of the War

#63

Post by sorenjan »

tmikaeld wrote: post #54
sorenjan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firewood was in short supply and hard to find this winter and spring because of high power prices, imagine what will happen this coming winter with prices 5X-10X.

It's still a country with a lot of wood, finding a farmer willing to sell some even at the worst of times, are easier than any alternative.

There's sellers that are already out of stock. Firewood needs to dry for months before use, and like everything else when there's high demand there will be high prices.

https://www.aftonbladet.se/minekonomi/a/66p5LQ/ved-rusning-l...

Re: Surging Energy Prices in Europe in the Aftermath of the War

#64

Post by ant6n »

sorenjan wrote: post #62
blub wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it would soften the blow if one doesn’t think of the present problems as paying for the idiocy of others, but rather as helping fellow Europeans through a potentially long, cold winter. Or helping Ukraine fight for democracy, for freedom, for Europe. I don’t think that in the EU we’ve fully exhausted the benefits of virtue and moral grandstanding, it’s too early to give up or be upset. And Sweden always had a…

Helping others solve their own problems doesn't keep your home warm, or food affordable. This isn't about helping Ukraine, it's about dealing with the aftermath of closing nuclear power, building not one but two natural gas pipelines to Russia, not prioritizing energy efficiency like insulation and heat pumps, and so on. Even before Putin went full crazy climate change was supposed to be a serious crisis. Edit: I for…

Also remember Germany (or better, the CDU) blocked nato membership of Ukraine.

Thanks again Angie!

Re: Surging Energy Prices in Europe in the Aftermath of the War

#65

Post by ant6n »

huijzer wrote: post #6

I still don’t get why countries such as the Netherlands and Germany started to subsidise fossil fuels by reducing the taxes on them. They claimed this was to help poor people. However, rich people benefit more since they typically have a car and a bigger one.

Hey but at the same time Germans got the 9€ Ticket — a monthly pass for all transit, including regional rail, in all of Germany.

The neoliberal coalition partner blocked its extension though, so now ppl are back to paying 60-150€ per month for transit.

Re: Surging Energy Prices in Europe in the Aftermath of the War

#66

Post by Kon-Peki »

sorenjan wrote: post #62
blub wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it would soften the blow if one doesn’t think of the present problems as paying for the idiocy of others, but rather as helping fellow Europeans through a potentially long, cold winter. Or helping Ukraine fight for democracy, for freedom, for Europe. I don’t think that in the EU we’ve fully exhausted the benefits of virtue and moral grandstanding, it’s too early to give up or be upset. And Sweden always had a…

Helping others solve their own problems doesn't keep your home warm, or food affordable. This isn't about helping Ukraine, it's about dealing with the aftermath of closing nuclear power, building not one but two natural gas pipelines to Russia, not prioritizing energy efficiency like insulation and heat pumps, and so on. Even before Putin went full crazy climate change was supposed to be a serious crisis. Edit: I for…

> Even before Putin went full crazy climate change was supposed to be a serious crisis

This.

I am guilty too. I know there really isn't much I can do to "help" except to accelerate my home energy efficiency plans, which will free up some small amount of gas for export this winter.

But why do I need to accelerate my plans? I made them last year. Why did it take an invasion halfway around the world to get me moving?

Re: Surging Energy Prices in Europe in the Aftermath of the War

#67

Post by tmikaeld »

sorenjan wrote: post #63
tmikaeld wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still a country with a lot of wood, finding a farmer willing to sell some even at the worst of times, are easier than any alternative.

There's sellers that are already out of stock. Firewood needs to dry for months before use, and like everything else when there's high demand there will be high prices. https://www.aftonbladet.se/minekonomi/a/66p5LQ/ved-rusning-l...

Yeah, these are hard times, I wouldn't bet on finding wood unless you know someone.

Re: Surging Energy Prices in Europe in the Aftermath of the War

#68

Post by bhawks »

photochemsyn wrote: post #45

Time for another round of quantitative easing, easy money, the whole government bonds -> central banks -> private banks routine, perhaps? The banks can then extend loans to power users at low rates, so they can pay the higher energy fees? Of course that's nonsense, but that's been the response of central banks to crises over the past decade (see Nomi Prins, Collusion). The problem is that there isn't enough physical…

> That means solar/wind/storage has to become the dominant energy system, and that's the general trend:

Solar and batteries require mining rare earth elements which also present similar supply chain and ecological concerns. Without storage wind and solar simply cannot meet reliability and demand expectations.

The problem has many more complicating factors then most people are willing to discuss.

Re: Surging Energy Prices in Europe in the Aftermath of the War

#69

Post by lostmsu »

tmikaeld wrote: post #53
sorenjan wrote: post #46

This situation is infuriating to me as a Swede. We use basically no natural gas or oil for heating or power production, and right now we're exporting 3.8 GW to other countries, showing that we have a power surplus equaling several nuclear reactors. A few days ago I heard that we where the largest power exporter in Europe. Even so, our power prices are through the roof because the price is set by the high export price…

The fair thing would be for Swedes to pay pre-export prices.

I think long term it already is fair: the extra profits should end up in Sweden economy, and citizens should come out wealthier as a whole.
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