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The dictatorship of the articulate

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Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#281

Post by savanaly »

rwl wrote: post #120
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #91

There's a reason we don't just "let the builders build". We used to do that (certainly to a massively greater extent than we do now), and the result was that although a few of them managed to construct monuments we can all be proud of, most of them built a pile of crap and/or damaged the places they built in and the people they nominally built for. This is true of literal buildings, but it's also true of a great many…

There was also a cost in human life. I saw a photo exhibition [1] about the construction of the Bay Bridge once, containing many beautiful shots from the point of view of the workers. The photos were taken by Peter Stackpole, a 20 year old kid who basically just talked his way onto the boats that took the workers out to the site. He took photos of the towers as they were being riveted together, of the cables being wo…

I don't think construction workers today would put up with someone in their ranks (construction crew on some big building) routinely dying and not strike for better conditions.

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#283

Post by wolframhempel »

The other day, embarking exhaustedly from a nine-hour transatlantic flight, I said to my wife: "They really need to hurry up and invent teleportation - what's taking them so long?". She replied tiredly: "I hope they won't. Once we have a way to get to work instantly, I'll have to work even longer hours"...

I feel this sort of fatalism is rather pervasive. I'm a huge fan of 1950s technology ads, showing housewifes kicking back with a cocktail inside the airconditioned glass bubble on top of their lawnmower. But this promise of technology to improve your quality of life and to let machines do your work while you relax has largely been replaced by a promise to let you do more work, consume more content and improve your overall efficiency.

There's a weird conflict here. We can empirically prove that life has gotten meaningfully better on a large number of metrics (the Steven Pinker message) - but our perceived reality has been heading downhill for decades, and there is a pervasive sense that every additional technology accelerates this process.

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#284

Post by ProjectArcturis »

shswkna wrote: post #241
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #91

There's a reason we don't just "let the builders build". We used to do that (certainly to a massively greater extent than we do now), and the result was that although a few of them managed to construct monuments we can all be proud of, most of them built a pile of crap and/or damaged the places they built in and the people they nominally built for. This is true of literal buildings, but it's also true of a great many…

I believe you will not come to an agreement with those that find that the opposite is true (‘let builders build’) because ultimately it boils down to one’s outlook on life and what we deem important (‘our value system’). By arguing in favour of regulation, you have a set of assumptions and expectations that support your view. For example, in the literal case of buildings, you might be thinking of rent-seekers and gre…

"No true builder" fallacy.

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#285

Post by jollybean »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #156

This is what I consider the modern face of Fascism. I know you're not supposed to use that word, because it really upsets Fascists. But really, long passionately argued essays about how democratic governance is stopping us from returning to the good old days and we should let the powerful do whatever they want. Using dubious emotional arguments like laundromats can't be historic buildings? Calling things dictatorship…

This is repulsive, anti-intellectual gaslighting.

'This if fascism, and if you don't agree you're a fascist'.

My god man.

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#286

Post by edmundsauto »

shswkna wrote: post #241
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #91

There's a reason we don't just "let the builders build". We used to do that (certainly to a massively greater extent than we do now), and the result was that although a few of them managed to construct monuments we can all be proud of, most of them built a pile of crap and/or damaged the places they built in and the people they nominally built for. This is true of literal buildings, but it's also true of a great many…

I believe you will not come to an agreement with those that find that the opposite is true (‘let builders build’) because ultimately it boils down to one’s outlook on life and what we deem important (‘our value system’). By arguing in favour of regulation, you have a set of assumptions and expectations that support your view. For example, in the literal case of buildings, you might be thinking of rent-seekers and gre…

You start with a truism/No True Scotsman, then overlay a theory of everything without any evidence to suggest how construction deaths Are comparable to natural selection.

I don’t disagree with you - but it would be worth revisiting how you make this argument. You took all this time to write a nice comment! & here I am, criticizing it, but I think you may need some refinement.

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#287

Post by pif »

_fat_santa wrote: post #256
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #91

There's a reason we don't just "let the builders build". We used to do that (certainly to a massively greater extent than we do now), and the result was that although a few of them managed to construct monuments we can all be proud of, most of them built a pile of crap and/or damaged the places they built in and the people they nominally built for. This is true of literal buildings, but it's also true of a great many…

> Chesterton's Fence at all: before you criticize let alone dismantle regulation, you should be able to demonstrate a sound understanding of why it came to exist in the first place It's not the individual regulations themselves, it's the mass of regulations that's slowing things down. I'm sure SF has a ton of regulations around building housing. You can point to each rule and give a very good reason for why that rule…

> I'm sure SF has a ton of regulations around building housing.

Which only affect those builders who keep wanting to build in San Francisco. Just go and build somewhere else, that's the entire point of San Francisco regulation!

> massive disservice to the community by driving away affordable housing and business.

I don't agree with you. SF regulations are working exactly fine for SF community: they are preventing the population density from increasing, and that in itself is a very valuable outcome.

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#288

Post by cortesoft »

selimthegrim wrote: post #267
cortesoft wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything would be ok for the 1950 kid youd drop anywhere Not if the kid was black. Just ask Emmett Till, a kid from Chicago ‘dropped’ into Mississippi on vacation. Or if the kid was a woman. You think she would have no problem finding a job in the 1950s? Or if the kid was a Muslim. Or gay. Or disabled. Even if you were a straight white male, your mortality rate was a lot higher in the 1950s than today.

My family actually were Muslims in the US in 1950, and I’m a little irritated at the suggestion of lacking agency.

I am not sure where you got the idea that I was saying a Muslim wouldn’t have agency. I am only saying that if a Muslim was dropped in the middle of the country in the 1950s, they would likely encounter difficulties that a white man wouldnt, and that assuming you could just go anywhere in the 1950s and be easily successful is not equally true for everyone.

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#289

Post by krferriter »

midoridensha wrote: post #152
rwl wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was also a cost in human life. I saw a photo exhibition [1] about the construction of the Bay Bridge once, containing many beautiful shots from the point of view of the workers. The photos were taken by Peter Stackpole, a 20 year old kid who basically just talked his way onto the boats that took the workers out to the site. He took photos of the towers as they were being riveted together, of the cables being wo…

Other highly-developed countries manage to construct things with at least as much safety as the US, at a far lower cost.

And with more unions and stronger unions than the US! Some people want to say unionization of some sectors is what makes US construction costs so high, but it really isn't because we can compare to other countries and see that it is possible to do things more cheaply while still maintaining a good level of worker benefits, and perhaps even more worker benefits.

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#290

Post by [deleted] »

hahaxdxd123 wrote: post #109

The same Marc Andreesen who complained that there shouldn't be housing built near him because it would lower his property prices? How can someone who has read Why Nations Fail miss the point? We don't build for the same reasons that we didn't from the year -2000 to the Enlightenment. Because it's now better and easier in so many cases to just rent seek. Why bother constructing housing when you can just have other peo…

[deleted]
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