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The dictatorship of the articulate

florentcrivello.com

241–250 of 409 posts

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#241

There's a reason we don't just "let the builders build". We used to do that (certainly to a massively greater extent than we do now), and the result was that although a few of them managed to construct monuments we can all be proud of, most of them built a pile of crap and/or damaged the places they built in and the people they nominally built for. This is true of literal buildings, but it's also true of a great many…

I believe you will not come to an agreement with those that find that the opposite is true (‘let builders build’) because ultimately it boils down to one’s outlook on life and what we deem important (‘our value system’).

By arguing in favour of regulation, you have a set of assumptions and expectations that support your view. For example, in the literal case of buildings, you might be thinking of rent-seekers and greedy fly-by-nights that build low cost housing in high rises that collapse years later (for example).

I could argue, these were never builders to begin with. They are copying something (very unoriginal) which doesn’t count as building, but is rather a very good example of entropy (of an initial good idea perhaps).

Those builders who really build, as in create, they are precious and rare, and only bloom in an environment of less regulation.

It is one of those many contradiction in life where you have to let the failures through to allow for something new and novel to emerge.

I believe that we owe our own existence to this principle, where evolution was a very wasteful process of many dead ends in terms of life forms that emerged from it but could not persist.

If evolution had been “conservative” I guarantee you intelligent life would not have emerged.

Transfer this principle to the evolution of ideas, or rather, creations, we will also stagnate ourselves into a dead end with our civilisation if the “regulators” ever get the upper hand.

(I am not saying they don’t have a purpose or should not exist; merely that they need to be balanced by the ‘chaotic creators’)

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#242
post #120

There's a reason we don't just "let the builders build". We used to do that (certainly to a massively greater extent than we do now), and the result was that although a few of them managed to construct monuments we can all be proud of, most of them built a pile of crap and/or damaged the places they built in and the people they nominally built for. This is true of literal buildings, but it's also true of a great many…

There was also a cost in human life. I saw a photo exhibition [1] about the construction of the Bay Bridge once, containing many beautiful shots from the point of view of the workers. The photos were taken by Peter Stackpole, a 20 year old kid who basically just talked his way onto the boats that took the workers out to the site. He took photos of the towers as they were being riveted together, of the cables being wo…

That's total misattribution of cause and effect. We could build that bridge today just as fast with no loss of life. We have tie offs, sensors, harnesses, automation, power tools, helicopters, better cranes, etc.

Look at the California high speed rail debacle. The reason for its lack of progress has zero to do with worker safety. They've barely even tried to do anything. It hasn't even gotten that far.

Our unwillingness to build housing has zero to do with worker safety. Few workers die or are seriously injured building houses in places where we still build houses.

The article here is right about the disease but wrong about the causes or the cure.

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#243

Yes! I propose we start with the aviation industry which is in dire need of innovation. It’s been a while since we’ve seen a new type of airplane with pointy nose or funky looking wings. We need more new stuff and we need it now. We should regulate it less. Or better, let the manufacturers do it themselves. They build the thing and they know better after all. What could possibly go wrong?

Is any amount of regulation too much? If so, how do you tell when it's too much?

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#245

The dictatorship of the articulate? So the author is clearly saying, "people" should not be in the room, or if in the room, be unable to speak, or if able to speak, be ignorant of their rights-- unless they support whatever he values. And then where will these people be? In which room? And what ability to speak should they have? And what about their rights should they know? "In the old days, it was so cheap and easy…

Essentially the more people have veto power or require consultation the harder it is to get anything done. The more policies and rules there are (particularly once uncertainty about what the rules are creeps in), the harder it is to build. If you've worked in a large corporation and a 10 man startup this should be obvious. In the latter you can spin up a new service in a couple of hours. In the former a couple of mon…

Look how many startups fail vs those large corporations.

Move fast and break things doesn't work in meat space

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a certain irony in looking favourably at the building speed and cost of an era when Depression labour oversupply could get a bridge built quickly and cheaply (with only 11 construction deaths!) but the longstanding invention of running water didn't find its way into grandma's house until well into the second decade of her life. And even people with running water saw it collected straight from the same ri…

Spoken like someone who's never had to carry all their daily water from a well. Even if you can't drink tap water the fact that you don't need to carry the water for washing, bathing, cleaning, watering, etc. etc. etc. is an amazing improvement in quality of life.

Just because it's an amazing thing which without life would be more difficult doesn't necessarily make it a good or amazing innovation.

Sure tap water is amazing and living without is hell. Food is amazing and living without is hell.

But in terms of innovation or technical level they are far away from a cell phone.

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#247
post #63

Unspoken and underlying the author's entire worldview seems to be, "the more new things, the better," a not uncommon tunnel view in the engineering world. The purpose of regulation, ideally, is to ensure that whatever activity/process is being regulated is worth the cost(s) for the majority of people. Defining those terms and making that decision is precisely the job of regulators, who are ideally accountable to a de…

> is to ensure that whatever activity/process is being regulated is worth the cost(s) for the majority of people

Ideally yes but in reality it ends up being a way for trolls to hang out under bridges and take their cut or to block new things to protect existing interests.

Is more housing in the best interest of the majority of people? Public transit? High speed rail? Better energy systems?

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#248

There's a reason we don't just "let the builders build". We used to do that (certainly to a massively greater extent than we do now), and the result was that although a few of them managed to construct monuments we can all be proud of, most of them built a pile of crap and/or damaged the places they built in and the people they nominally built for. This is true of literal buildings, but it's also true of a great many…

There's also a certain irony in looking favourably at the building speed and cost of an era when Depression labour oversupply could get a bridge built quickly and cheaply (with only 11 construction deaths!) but the longstanding invention of running water didn't find its way into grandma's house until well into the second decade of her life. And even people with running water saw it collected straight from the same ri…

>but the longstanding invention of running water didn't find its way into grandma's house until well into the second decade of her life.

His point still stands, as it would go went beyond the fifth or more decade of her life and cost 10x more if we had to lay such pipes, build the original dams, etc, from scratch, today. And that's even considering todays advanced technical means...

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken like someone who's never had to carry all their daily water from a well. Even if you can't drink tap water the fact that you don't need to carry the water for washing, bathing, cleaning, watering, etc. etc. etc. is an amazing improvement in quality of life.

Just because it's an amazing thing which without life would be more difficult doesn't necessarily make it a good or amazing innovation. Sure tap water is amazing and living without is hell. Food is amazing and living without is hell. But in terms of innovation or technical level they are far away from a cell phone.

>Just because it's an amazing thing which without life would be more difficult doesn't necessarily make it a good or amazing innovation.

Actually it does. That's the very definition of a "good or amazing innovation".

It might not be technically involved or some deep use of science and physics and such, but it's definitely a good AND amazing innovation.

Aside from the huge quality of life improvement it brought, it was also a huge productivity boost (all those wasted domestic hours plus also the boost to agriculture, and industrial uses) AND a huge quantity of life improvement (early "low hanging fruit" like running water saved millions of lives).

>But in terms of innovation or technical level they are far away from a cell phone.

Which is irrelevant.

We don't create stuff for the "innovation in technical level" alone, but for the improvement in our daily lives. And life was perfect livable (if not more so) 1992, before everybody had cellphones. Much less so before running water.

If "technical innovation" alone mattered, we'd be building ever more complex Rube Goldberg machines. That's for the people who appreciate an IoT washing machine because "it has more technology, man", even though functionality wise it's the same as a regular one (if not worse, due to more complex UI and failure points).

Re: The dictatorship of the articulate

#250
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was also a cost in human life. I saw a photo exhibition [1] about the construction of the Bay Bridge once, containing many beautiful shots from the point of view of the workers. The photos were taken by Peter Stackpole, a 20 year old kid who basically just talked his way onto the boats that took the workers out to the site. He took photos of the towers as they were being riveted together, of the cables being wo…

I'm fine with people dying during construction _if_ we foresee the deaths. What I'm not fine with is killing people with lead/arsenic/asbestos/plastics because we didn't put new tech through it's paces before we deployed it en-mass. We live in a world that is both too conservative and not anywhere near conservative enough.

>I'm fine with people dying during construction _if_ we foresee the deaths.

Because that's other people dying.

>What I'm not fine with is killing people with lead/arsenic/asbestos/plastics because we didn't put new tech through it's paces before we deployed it en-mass.

Because this affects you.

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