Live data from Hacker News

The case for language agnostic hiring

alphalist.com

31–40 of 124 posts

Re: The case for language agnostic hiring

#31

Elixir, Haskell et al. require concepts that are not required at all in e.g. Java. The functional programming module at my university had the highest failure rate after the math and statistics classes. Even something like C can require new concepts. I was a tutor for a university C programming course and students that had no problems with Java struggled hard with direct memory manipulation, pointer arithmetic etc., b…

I have just spent most of the past year learning F# as my first real functional language. All in my own time. It took a lot of my own time. I've purchased many books and sunk many hours.

Re: The case for language agnostic hiring

#33

Elixir, Haskell et al. require concepts that are not required at all in e.g. Java. The functional programming module at my university had the highest failure rate after the math and statistics classes. Even something like C can require new concepts. I was a tutor for a university C programming course and students that had no problems with Java struggled hard with direct memory manipulation, pointer arithmetic etc., b…

If you only know java are you even a real (professional) dev? I'd expect any dev wanting a job using a language he doesn't know to have some understanding all of the concepts you're talking about. It's not language specific, it's just the basics of programming.

You can go your whole professional life without being exposed to all those concepts. The fact is that different areas have different basics.

(Also, there are tons of languages that don't touch on functional programming concept at all.)

Re: The case for language agnostic hiring

#35
>You might be looking for a specialist but you don’t want to attract people who are only interested in particular languages. Because that person’s narrow focus will hinder their growth.

Exactly what I have been witness to was this taken to the test. Result:

* You hire devs who do not like (or worse: hate) working in the language of the shop. They scold at the application they have to maintain and run, they do not contribute libraries or fixes, and topic number 0 at all larger meetings is "how we should rewrite everything in TypeScript/Go/Kotlin/whatever-tech-the-freshly-hired-senior-person-likes-best"

* You hire devs who do not care about the ecosystem. When the time comes to fix an external dependency which is not up to snuff, they will be saying things like "well if this app was written in $my_favourite_lang instead, this would have been so much easier"

* You create an infighting culture between people who do like to work with the current setup and people who want to destroy it and replace it with their favourite setup, be it for language preference or for "getting promoted" reasons

Briefly: no, I think it is absolutely imperative - especially at a company which is not polyglot - that even if it is not a requirement to be super-proficient in the main tech at the shop, it must be a requirement - and not a soft requirement - that the eng. be prepared to work, explore and develop in that tech. If this requirement is not present or not met, you are setting up your company for turf wars potentially for years to come.

Re: The case for language agnostic hiring

#36
post #29

I hate requirements about experience with specific technologies a lot as I enjoy learning new things normally, not doing what I have already done thousand times before. But what's missing from such rants are good hiring criteria. Leetcode performance? Verifiable successful projects? Being able to appear as a smart guy to team members? All of these are problematic in one way or another.

How about "you have some knowledge of stack X and you are committed to learn that particular stack and finding joy in using it"?

Re: The case for language agnostic hiring

#37

Elixir, Haskell et al. require concepts that are not required at all in e.g. Java. The functional programming module at my university had the highest failure rate after the math and statistics classes. Even something like C can require new concepts. I was a tutor for a university C programming course and students that had no problems with Java struggled hard with direct memory manipulation, pointer arithmetic etc., b…

If you only know java are you even a real (professional) dev? I'd expect any dev wanting a job using a language he doesn't know to have some understanding all of the concepts you're talking about. It's not language specific, it's just the basics of programming.

> If you only know java are you even a real (professional) dev?

I'm a polyglot but Java is the language I used the most and I can guarantee you there are many professional dev I met and worked with that only know Java and make their comfy living writing only Java. Java is powering the real world since more than two decades now and the JVM is some rock solid tech with extensive tooling, so they can get away with only knowing Java.

A dev can definitely focus only on Java and, for better or worse, makes all his career, from his first job until retirement (to me it's obvious Java is here to stay and it's going to dwarf COBOL's legacy), writing only Java.

Re: The case for language agnostic hiring

#39

Elixir, Haskell et al. require concepts that are not required at all in e.g. Java. The functional programming module at my university had the highest failure rate after the math and statistics classes. Even something like C can require new concepts. I was a tutor for a university C programming course and students that had no problems with Java struggled hard with direct memory manipulation, pointer arithmetic etc., b…

If you only know java are you even a real (professional) dev? I'd expect any dev wanting a job using a language he doesn't know to have some understanding all of the concepts you're talking about. It's not language specific, it's just the basics of programming.

Believe it or not, people have professional dev carriers knowing only gasp JavaScript.

Re: The case for language agnostic hiring

#40
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A working dev should be well beyond the understanding of a third-year CS student. This is not "advanced" from the perspective of someone in practice, it is the requirement to get in to the practice. (I know people get programming jobs without CS degrees, but if you can do that, you can teach yourself how pointers work)

Right, "advanced" into their studies, they weren't freshman but almost done with their bachelors degree. And yeah, I believe that most developers can learn pointers and FP, sure, but on the side with pair programming and "mob programming", while still working a full time dev job ?

The point of the article here is that if it's a language your company uses, learning it is part of your dev job.
Post reply on HN