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The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

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Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#91

This kind of nauseus bloat is a big factor why I'm trying to stay away from iOS and Android development. So many projects out there could be much more quickly, cheaply and freedomly (my word) done as a simple web app or even as pure static HTML website in some cases. So much foolishness, hype and hipstering going on.

You are staying away from iOS and Android because the government overpays for low quality software?

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#92

Fine. "6 hours maximum", says the author, for an app translated into English and Spanish that interfaces with a remote database and performs some user-initiated calculations, and also has a bunch of static pages. Before starting you must consult with at least a dozen people who know very little about Android and succinctly describe the capabilities of the smartphone and what sorts of applications are even possible. F…

I was actually just going to mention this. With all of the in-bundle resource differences required for two iPhone resolutions, different .xibs for iPad, etc, we're talking about much more than 6 hours worth of work here. The source code (for iOS, at least) is also pretty clean and decently commented for what it is. $96k is still outrageous, but for work-for-hire it's off by a factor of 2-5 rather than a factor of 10.…

>but maybe it's because they have 50,000 other ways to determine temperature and humidity at their current location. Like, say, existing in a conscious state at their current location.

Most of us can say "it's cold" or "it's humid" -- but we rely on more mature data services so we can know exactly how cold or how humid it might be...

You've essentially just argued that NOAA stat tracking is pointless because "you can stick your head out of a window".

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#93
post #77

Fine. "6 hours maximum", says the author, for an app translated into English and Spanish that interfaces with a remote database and performs some user-initiated calculations, and also has a bunch of static pages. Before starting you must consult with at least a dozen people who know very little about Android and succinctly describe the capabilities of the smartphone and what sorts of applications are even possible. F…

It seems this guy doesn't account for "bureaucratic overhead" that is involved in dealing with any large client: You already mentioned the need for lots and lots of meetings and doing the translations, there is also writing up a proposal and some reports, drawing up contracts and sub-contracts, doing usability testing and ensuring compliance with applicable federal regulations. And there is probably a lot of other st…

Looks to me like there's room for someone to come in and make a buck off "AIs" that can handle the regulations, reports and meetings efficiently.

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#94
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of government agencies, as well as groups within large companies, want to keep their budgets (or increase them), so there isn't an incentive to be cost effective -- as you mentioned. But, as another person commented, the overhead around government projects (documentation, reports, meetings, etc) will bloat things beyond a simple time/materials development contract. The FBO has a site listing the contacts, but t…

Yeah the same happens within any large organization - universities are one example I am familiar with. If you get a large grant from NIH or NSF or whoever, you don't have any incentive to minimize expenses because you don't benefit in any way from spending less than your budget. So typically people will order the most expensive things that can fit within the budget or even buy stuff they don't need just to spend all…

A fringe benefit is that some of them will support students they don't absolutely need to support when the opportunity arise.

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#95
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of government agencies, as well as groups within large companies, want to keep their budgets (or increase them), so there isn't an incentive to be cost effective -- as you mentioned. But, as another person commented, the overhead around government projects (documentation, reports, meetings, etc) will bloat things beyond a simple time/materials development contract. The FBO has a site listing the contacts, but t…

Yeah the same happens within any large organization - universities are one example I am familiar with. If you get a large grant from NIH or NSF or whoever, you don't have any incentive to minimize expenses because you don't benefit in any way from spending less than your budget. So typically people will order the most expensive things that can fit within the budget or even buy stuff they don't need just to spend all…

add an incentive to minimize expenses?

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#96
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What test would they use to check whether an app is simple or not? At a certain point, you put out a bid for a complicated monstrocity, and the only entrant is some RentACoder who claims he can re-write Windows in Python in two weeks for $50.

Since the competition would be for finished apps, it wouldn't matter.

Sure it would. If OSHA wants a new operating system, putting out an open call for a deliverable would be retarded. Absolutely nobody would be able to deliver such a thing on spec, and those that would be willing would be obvious scam artists.

At best, it would cost someone a few weeks of time evaluating these bullshit submissions and realizing that they're a waste of time. At worst, they would be accepted, another $100k would be paid out, and we'd be worse off than when we began.

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#97
I think the author is also forgetting that any programming work done for the government/state is always contractually bound by a multi-year code guarantee. This means that if any bugs are uncovered within that time period, the vendor must at no cost to the government fix them. That leads to drawn out negotiations over if something is a bug or enhancement. These code guarantees typically range between 2 - 5 years during which you can't charge a dime for anything related to fixing actual bugs.

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#98

"broken proprietary software which the public isn't even allowed to fix." This is recurring theme that traces back at least as early as the 1990's. What's different now is that there is historical evidence that open source projects can produce higher quality software than proprietary ones.

Really? It's clear that open source projects can produce excellent quality software. It's also clear that proprietary software can be excellent quality. Both can also produce garbage. If you have evidence that open source can produce generally better quality software, or is consistently better for the same kinds of problem, I would like to see it presented.

Thanks for the reply.

Did you notice my choice to use the words "can produce" (as in "sometimes") not the word "produce" (as in "always")? I would never make the later statement: open projects always produce higher quality software than proprietary ones. That's not my belief.

As such, you are asking me in your last sentence if I have evidence to support a statement I would never make. Of course, the answer is no, because I would not bother to look for it.

But I would be interested to know why you would like to see such evidence if it exists? I could take a guess as to the reason(s) but I do not want to make assumptions.

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#99
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the competition would be for finished apps, it wouldn't matter.

Sure it would. If OSHA wants a new operating system, putting out an open call for a deliverable would be retarded. Absolutely nobody would be able to deliver such a thing on spec, and those that would be willing would be obvious scam artists. At best , it would cost someone a few weeks of time evaluating these bullshit submissions and realizing that they're a waste of time. At worst , they would be accepted, another…

We were talking about some temperature app, not a new operating system. I did not suggest such a competition would be a good idea for every kind of project.

It's true that there would be overhead for running the competition and judging the entries, too.

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#100
I would like to point out that SAIC more or less stole VisTA source code from the VA under FOIA and then sold the same code to the Department of Defense for billions. We still can't get the source code they've modified. Why is it that if a government employee writes the software, it's FOIA'ble, but if the government pays someone else for it, it's not? The government is just stuck with some crappy binaries?
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