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The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

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Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#71

Post by enoptix »

AJ007 wrote: post #36
gte910h wrote: post #11

The problem with the government trying to do something is that anyone who's really really qualified will find the paperwork, compliance, and bidding procedures way too complicated for the sums of money involved. The Android app cost 106k btw. So looking at this guys hourly rate, it would take approximately 6 months of 40 hour weeks for him to cost that much to do the app. So if he: Learned out to submit the forms tha…

If someone is interested in how the government procurement process is gamed, "The Stoner Arms Dealers: How Two American Kids Became Big-Time Weapons Traders" in Rolling Stone is a good read - http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-stoner-arms-de... It sounded to me like the whole business was getting the contract written correctly. Once the contract was procured, fulfillment it was more of an after thought.

I hadn't seen that article before. It was a great read. Thanks for sharing.

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#72

Post by Omnipresent »

I've been on a govt project for the last four years and can't begin to tell you how much money is wasted on IT projects during the entire year. Hearing in the News that the administration is trying to save money by cutting on office supplies makes me laugh! The "Supercommittee" could have at least put a dent in the savings by literally just reviewing the IT projects that the Govt contracts out and the process they follow to manage those contracts.

In the agency I work in, there are 9 IT systems that go to production twice in a year. For the entire year the total development time provided (when environments are open for programmers to develop) is about 2 months. Yet the govt is paying the developers and complete IT teams for the entire year.

It really is ridiculous. Big boys like BAH, SAIC, CSC, CACI etc. etc. are milking the system and taking advantage of incompetent and gullible govt employees.

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#75

Post by rbarooah »

101001010111 wrote: post #38

"broken proprietary software which the public isn't even allowed to fix." This is recurring theme that traces back at least as early as the 1990's. What's different now is that there is historical evidence that open source projects can produce higher quality software than proprietary ones.

Really? It's clear that open source projects can produce excellent quality software. It's also clear that proprietary software can be excellent quality. Both can also produce garbage.

If you have evidence that open source can produce generally better quality software, or is consistently better for the same kinds of problem, I would like to see it presented.

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#76

Post by nobody314159265 »

shareme wrote: post #65
jellicle wrote: post #62

Fine. "6 hours maximum", says the author, for an app translated into English and Spanish that interfaces with a remote database and performs some user-initiated calculations, and also has a bunch of static pages. Before starting you must consult with at least a dozen people who know very little about Android and succinctly describe the capabilities of the smartphone and what sorts of applications are even possible. F…

that is why HN is so entertaining to read as I did not realize there were this many clueless idiots :)

> I did not realize there were this many clueless idiots

You didn't? Why do you think we need to make the switch to IPV6?

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#77

Post by rweba »

jellicle wrote: post #62

Fine. "6 hours maximum", says the author, for an app translated into English and Spanish that interfaces with a remote database and performs some user-initiated calculations, and also has a bunch of static pages. Before starting you must consult with at least a dozen people who know very little about Android and succinctly describe the capabilities of the smartphone and what sorts of applications are even possible. F…

It seems this guy doesn't account for "bureaucratic overhead" that is involved in dealing with any large client: You already mentioned the need for lots and lots of meetings and doing the translations, there is also writing up a proposal and some reports, drawing up contracts and sub-contracts, doing usability testing and ensuring compliance with applicable federal regulations.

And there is probably a lot of other stuff involved that I don't know about. And lets not forget some overhead to pay for the office and some profit.

It probably ends up being a few hundred man hours once you account for everything.

So yeah - it could most likely be cheaper or better, but the pitchfork attitude is probably going too far.

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#78

Post by Omnipresent »

Check out this RFI from IRS for JAVA Open Source. It makes no sense why they would want a team to consolidate all the open source libraries they want rather than just going out and getting those libraries.

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id...

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#79

Post by seanalltogether »

bambax wrote: post #20
_ea1k wrote: post #3

I'm curious if this really surprises anyone here that the entire process for the government purchasing three mobile applications (Android, iOS, and BB) was ~200k. This seems pretty ordinary/normal to me.

Yes. Doing business with the Government means you have to spend endless hours in meetings and produce endless piles of paperwork. In small projects such as this one, overhead is probably around 90% of total cost. Incidentally, that's why auctioning small pieces of a larger project independently is probably not a good idea. Costs could in fact skyrocket: each part would have its own contract, negotiation process, meet…

Precisely, I wouldn't try to get involved in a government contract for less then $100k, even if the final result was to produce a single document, because you're going to spend so much of your budget just navigating the waters.

Re: The Government's $200,000 Useless Android Application

#80

Post by javert »

pndmnm wrote: post #68
javert wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government's duty to protect your life does not extend beyond protecting it from the use of force by other people. If you choose to work in a place, that's your choice. Even if you fail to make sure it's safe before you work there, or decide to work there despite the risk. Anyway, even if OSHA were legitime, this app is not effective at achieving anything, even if executed well.

Your definition of "government's duty" is not universally agreed upon, and it's intellectually dishonest to predicate an argument on the presumption that it is.

I didn't present any argument. I just made a statement, without presenting (here) any supporting evidence.

Yes, I realize most people won't agree with the statement.

My hope is that by providing it as food for thought, some people may thinking about it and decide that they agree, or may at least be more open to the idea when it comes up in some other context.

Isn't it intellectually dishonest for you to call someone intellectually dishonest, when you don't know all the relevant causal factors? (Answer: no, it's just a mistake.)

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