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Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#791

Post by creeble »

015a wrote: post #771
creeble wrote: post #214

>We believe cyberattacks, in any form, should be relegated to the dustbin of history. Unless, of course, you are an _enabler_ of such attacks. This is where CF's hypocrisy shines through. instant-stresser.com str3ssed.co freestresser.co metastresser.com (dozens more) These are all sites hosted with CF DNS, who provide services that are literally the opposite of free speech -- they are in the business of _suppressing…

Hosting a DNS zone file is not tantamount to enabling attacks. Its like saying Google enabled murder because Maps provided the directions for a murderer to get to the victim's house.

It's also not tantamount to saying "relegating cyberattacks to the dustbin of history" either.

Maps isn't a service used for suppressing free speech. It's the hypocrisy that is galling.

If you stand up for free speech, it is inconsistent to support those whose business plan is the suppression of free speech.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#792

Post by viraptor »

schleck8 wrote: post #780
yarrel wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kiwi Farms recently DDoSed a suicide prevention hotline. So you are factually wrong.

You can't DDoS a phone number can you? Maybe their website but google snippets should cache the number

I can't tell if you're missing the point or trolling, but just in case: There's only a limited number of people in the call centre. By overwhelming the queue, you prevent others reaching the service.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#793

Post by fleddr »

rosmax_1337 wrote: post #210

I find the article hopeful for the future of free speech on the internet. Even though the ability to host content on the net is one thing and lacking access to most platforms (where the users actually are) like youtube, facebook, instagram, tiktok is another. The most important thing nowadays is access to the siloed user bases for people who try to express dissident opinions, not the access to the net as whole, even…

I'm with you that they did the right thing by taking this neutral stance, the peculiar section you should see as "managing optics" and keeping hysterical activists off their backs.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#794

Post by viraptor »

philippejara wrote: post #722
jackson1442 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can we leave something for the courts to decide while at the same time dismissing all courts other than the US? Especially when you consider neither the hosting provider of the site in question, nor the target of this wave of harassment are from the US.

At that point why bother with cloudflare? if you have a credible legal case to take down the hosting of the website you make a legal case in the place where it is being hosted and use that to get it down. I can't really see any reason for a court of law to force cloudflare to not service someone given that the obvious implications that the one asking for that to happen wants to commit a felony, or at the very least m…

Because the hosting company may be not bothered and actively supporting the extremist content. (guess if this applies in this case...)

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#795

Post by Cr4shMyCar »

spencerchubb wrote: post #677
amrocha wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't want to live in a world where my trans friends get relentlessly harassed and cyber bullied until they kill themselves. Can I have that?

Harassment is already a crime. No need for companies like cloudflare to implement their own bespoke judicial system

Selling drugs is already a crime, no need for eBay or Facebook to implement their own bespoke judicial system. Something being illegal doesn't mean people won't do it.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#796

Post by stormbrew »

DoctorOW wrote: post #656
stormbrew wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the latter makes me more hopeful as someone in that specific minority community. I'm curious what you think the "balancing" donation/action/whatever cloudflare could do to counteract the very real harms kf causes are? This isn't a political action group that takes donations and lobbies. It's a site where people's personal information is offered up to anyone who wants it, knowing that many of those people want to do…

> This isn't a political action group that takes donations and lobbies. It's a site where people's personal information is offered up to anyone who wants it, knowing that many of those people want to do harm with it. The owners and moderators know all of this and both allow and encourage it. I don't think that specific passage was in reference to KiwiFarm's paid plan. > Yes, this should be an issue for law enforcemen…

> I don't think that specific passage was in reference to KiwiFarm's paid plan.

I didn't say it was? I don't see why the fact that cf is paying for their ddos protection instead of kf paying for it themselves is really relevant to the enablement of harm.

Honestly that makes it even worse: in the other situation, cf is taking money from a bad actor and funneling it towards a good one (both allegedly). Here cf is paying expenses (probably in the marketing line of their expense sheet) to keep kf accessible, including storing, replicating, and distributing their content, doxes and all.

> This is the specific contradiction I'm trying to avoid.

I think this is a contradiction of your own making? The problem people have isn't that the targets of kf are being "silenced" in some Renaissance ideal sort of way. It's that they are put in a position of fearing for their own lives and the lives of the people around them. There's no contradiction here unless you think the people who want the site to stop are secret free speech absolutists.

Anyways, while we're talking about perfect worlds where police actually do anything about stuff like this and no one has to resort, in my perfect world the internet doesn't break because cf does, and cf isn't even in a position to arbitrate speech. But we can't always get what we want.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#798

Post by [deleted] »

rhinoceraptor wrote: post #101
tekla wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I support free speech except the things that I don't like"

The site in question is one of the most notorious doxxing and harassment forums, linked to multiple suicides of their victims over the years. I'm not sure what principled political speech you think is being protected here.

[deleted]

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#799

Post by _vvaw »

zamalek wrote: post #762
3fcc8rQD8qPJhcd wrote: post #290

Really disappointed to learn that Cloudflare contributes disproportionately to hate speech and misinformation https://ojs.aaai.org/index.php/ICWSM/article/view/19292/1906... Seems like KF is not an isolated incident but a trend which has been established for some years now

The thing about KF is that it does violate their regulations: > including content that discloses sensitive personal information It must be a case of somebody knowing somebody, or somebody high up being a member of KF.

As others have stated for that's their ToS for hosting, not DDoS protection

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#800

Post by Cr4shMyCar »

Banana699 wrote: post #724
amrocha wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't want to live in a world where my trans friends get relentlessly harassed and cyber bullied until they kill themselves. Can I have that?

Yes you can, convince your friends to deactivate their social media accounts where\when they're harrassed or aggressively block those who harrass them. Teach them tips and tricks to bully back (bullying is really easy). Find them mental health professionals and services, and possibly help them financially with those services.

Harassment isn't something that Just Happens and it's not something that's impossible to stop or prevent. If a group of people is shooting others, would you only teach people what to do if they've been shot or would you find and take action against the people shooting others?
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