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Launch HN: Payload (YC S22) – Headless CMS for Developers

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Re: Launch HN: Payload (YC S22) – Headless CMS for Developers

#31
post #9

Looks like an interesting idea. Other than PHP-hate, why would someone choose this over something like Drupal?

Drupal is obviously one of the longest-running content management systems available and they have done a much better job at keeping up with the moving target that is tech, when compared to Joomla / WP.

Outside of being written in TypeScript with more modern conventions, the fact that Payload borders on an application framework is what would make someone choose it over something like Drupal.

Feature-wise, this commonly means reusing Payload's auth in your own app(s), defining function-based access control rather than RBAC, swapping in React components into the admin UI, and more.

But another HUGE reason is that when we built Payload, we tried to keep its own internal conventions as close as possible to just regular JS / TS. If you know JS, you know Payload. With Drupal and even WP to an extent, you need to know how _their_ conventions work. It's all very specific to the platform and the Payload team has always hated that. Devs don't want to learn CMS - they want to learn the underlying language, and Payload embraces that to its core.

Re: Launch HN: Payload (YC S22) – Headless CMS for Developers

#34
post #9

Looks like an interesting idea. Other than PHP-hate, why would someone choose this over something like Drupal?

Personal opinion: Even as someone who used and loved PHP for a decade, Drupal is just awful. It's overengineered and bloated and the documentation is pretty sparse, not to mention it's hard to scale up. Its admin and editor UX is decades being modern headless CMSes. It is extremely powerful, but seemingly built to handle the most extreme edge cases rather than the most common use cases, and a lot of the power is just confusing and unnecessary for your typical website. In like 10% of the time it takes to get a Drupal system up and running well, you can do the same thing with Wordpress and Advanced Custom Forms and end up with an infinitely better UX, DX, and EX.

Drupal suffers tremendously from "by engineers, for engineers" and it's just an incredibly poor experience if you don't fit that mold. It's non-stop pain for no reward.

Having used it for a major project (both in daily use and in a big migration from D7 to D8/9), I will NEVER take another job that uses Drupal again... it is the second most dreaded web framework for a reason (above only Angular): https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#section-most-loved-dre...

Halfway through our Drupal "upgrade" (rewrite, because D7 had no upgrade path), we just gave up on it and went to Next.js + a headless CMS instead. Everyone was massively happier after that... the devs, the editors, IT, marketing, content writers, analytics... Drupal was just soooo bad that even its newest version was years if not decades behind modern experiences.

Sorry I feel so strongly about this... the mere word makes my blood boil. I've never HATED a technology the way I hate Drupal, before or since. If you're considering it for a project for the first time, don't walk, SPRINT as far away as it as you possibly could.

Re: Launch HN: Payload (YC S22) – Headless CMS for Developers

#35
In my previous job we struggled to get a CMS for our app: it was a medical app with articles embedded in it, and we wanted a way to have doctors and translators work independently in a CMS environment, with the final product being released in the normal way.

We never found anything that would have done the CI automation we wanted, or not without significant customisation. Do you support CI workflows at all?

Re: Launch HN: Payload (YC S22) – Headless CMS for Developers

#36
I see the value in this product, and I agree that for developers it’s boring to build CMS, that’s why me and my team have been shopping around for a solution to give marketers and sales a tool which could give them autonomy, we picked contentful a couple of weeks ago as no one wanted to be on call for hosting issues, so it’s a shame, I wished you could’ve launched few weeks ago but now we’ve already started developing it after pitching it to stakeholders and getting the budget approved, good luck for your success

Re: Launch HN: Payload (YC S22) – Headless CMS for Developers

#38

Looking forward to a replacement for https://www.netlifycms.org/

Yeah! We've had a lot of people move to Payload from Netlify CMS. Those that have moved have given us a ton of great feedback in regards to our UX and dev experience comparatively.

Re: Launch HN: Payload (YC S22) – Headless CMS for Developers

#39

I see the value in this product, and I agree that for developers it’s boring to build CMS, that’s why me and my team have been shopping around for a solution to give marketers and sales a tool which could give them autonomy, we picked contentful a couple of weeks ago as no one wanted to be on call for hosting issues, so it’s a shame, I wished you could’ve launched few weeks ago but now we’ve already started developin…

Awww dang! Sorry to have missed you. I've used Contentful in a handful of projects in the past and our team's struggles were partially responsible for the creation of Payload. Keep us in mind for your next project - and best of luck!
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