Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach • Hacker News Board

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#401

Post by sophacles » Wed, Aug 31, 2022, 5:20 PM UTC

EdiX wrote: post #372

sealeck wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you believe investigative journalism has a place in our society? Yes and KiwiFarms is not investigative journalism - they're harrassing and doxxing private individuals with clearly personal malicious intent. The key part of investigative journalism is the "investigative", which there is no evidence of on KiwiFarm's part. No attempts to hold power to account, to expose serious breaches of power - just a horrid, a…

Do you think CNN should be driven off the internet? Back in 2017 they threatened and harassed an anonymous reddit user into apologizing for making a harmless gif [1]. How is CNN better than kiwifarms? [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politics/kfile-reddit-use...

No post body was provided.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#402

Post by DoctorOW » Wed, Aug 31, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

throwrqX wrote: post #380

DoctorOW wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is Null telling people to harass people to death? I'll treat you as though you're honest, but I might point out this is a dishonest person's favorite argument. Here's the common answer in Twitter thread form: https://twitter.com/IamRageSparkle/status/128089253502461952...

An argument should be able to stand on its own regardless of which people believe in it or use it. As for the Twitter thread I've heard plenty of similar arguments before but I'm not a particularly big believer in them. Lots of people have very awful company (take for example Hollywood actors associating with predators) but that doesn't particularly mean that they are promoting or in agreement with the actions of the…

> * An argument should be able to stand on its own regardless of which people believe in it or use it.*

Which is why I continued on with addressing the argument.

> Lots of people have very awful company (take for example Hollywood actors associating with predators)

False equivalency I'd say. Yes, the entertainment industry as a whole SUCKS. But if you think about it for even a second, you'll realize there is a difference between being an actor and being an open Nazi.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#403

Post by ladyattis » Wed, Aug 31, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

throwayyy479087 wrote: post #35

Never thought I'd see the Left trying to weaponize corporations to suppress speech they dislike. Reminds me a LOT of Evangelicals in the 2000s - I know that comparison has been made frequently but that's the last group that made a serious censorship push. I wonder how all of this will end? I support CloudFlare here - they should act as a utility, not as an arbiter of content. This ends poorly and one day will bite th…

It's nothing like the evangelicals by any stretch of the imagination. The fact of the matter is that Kiwi Farms is a cesspit full of people who revel in obsessing over people and then harassing them not only at their jobs but even through their private communications (phone numbers, personal email addresses, etc). How you react if dozens of people just started calling you at all hours because you're trans and are visible in a social network? How would you react to having to explain to your employer that it's just "some kids" constantly badgering you and them when you're busy doing work? How would handle the act of them calling the police with false reports that result in a SWAT raid? This isn't hypothetical, it's happened many times due to Kiwi Farms and other forums.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#404

Post by Mindwipe » Wed, Aug 31, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

seneca wrote: post #43

It's interesting watching the responses roll in here. What CF is laying out here was essentially the standard viewpoint of western society until something like 10 years ago. "I disagree with what you say, but I'll protect your right to say it" is a basic tenant of liberalism. If you find that shocking, you should examine why that is.

Except they're not, because they shut down Switter.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#405

Post by howdyfolks » Wed, Aug 31, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

hnbad wrote: post #138

That's a lot of words to say that they don't want to drop Kiwifarms. It's interesting how companies like Cloudflare will stylize themselves as public infrastructure when it comes to who they should take money from but would fight tooth and claw if you argued they should also be regulated as such. This is simply free speech fundamentalism posing as being "unpolitical". Free speech taken to the extreme results in the s…

Did you bother to read the post? They’re not taking money from them

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#406

Post by jefftk » Wed, Aug 31, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

a2128 wrote: post #347

In my experience Cloudflare goes too far with offering their security services to everyone. There is a website that's constantly ripping and stealing artistic content from a community I used to be part of. They have an automated process for ripping and reuploading content not meant to be downloadable from small independent artists in this community without informing the artist, obtaining permission or anything. Outra…

It sounds like getting together and using the legal system is your best bet here

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#407

Post by canistista » Wed, Aug 31, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

sealeck wrote: post #190

weberer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And let's be real. DDoS attacks are acts of digital terrorism. They're attacking infrastructure due to political motives. These people who want to revoke DDoS protection for groups they don't like are essentially promoting terrorism. Why else would they fight so hard to remove DDoS protection, if not because they simply want those attacks to succeed?

> They're attacking infrastructure due to political motives. They're attacking KiwiFarms for their agenda of trying to drive people to commit suicide.

users aren't the hosts

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#408

Post by howdyfolks » Wed, Aug 31, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

Grue3 wrote: post #77

seneca wrote: post #43

It's interesting watching the responses roll in here. What CF is laying out here was essentially the standard viewpoint of western society until something like 10 years ago. "I disagree with what you say, but I'll protect your right to say it" is a basic tenant of liberalism. If you find that shocking, you should examine why that is.

When was a platform for doxing and harassment a tenet of liberalism? "Your liberty to swing your fist ends just where my nose begins".

It wasn’t. That it would be dealt with by the courts if it broke the law — that was

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#409

Post by banannaise » Wed, Aug 31, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

3sGPqEu59EGDFUn wrote: post #234

chc wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The group they're trying to target here is a terrorist group. Not even in a metaphorical sense. It's people who try to harass random transgender people to the point of suicide or murder.

If they are a terrorist group (or otherwise doing something "wrong"), then the appropriate means to deal with that is courts and law enforcement, not a CDN.

This assumes that law enforcement is both effective and fair. It is neither.

"Police exist, therefore nobody except the police is allowed to do anything about anyone's bad behavior" is a terrible argument.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#410

Post by pseudo0 » Wed, Aug 31, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

chc wrote: post #306

tlonny wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your source on the SWAT-ing + death threats originating from Kiwi Farms? My understanding of that website is that it is moderated based on the philosophy of "look, don't touch". Your statement runs contrary to this...

They are the top suspects in the swatting of the Twitch streamer Keffals and Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene just in the past month. There have been many news articles about it — I would suggest Googling and picking the source that seems most credible to you, since I've found linking specific sources tends to lead to people debating the source itself. (I'll be honest, I'm skeptical on the MTG one, but they are still the…

I read about the Marjorie Taylor Green incident. The swatter apparently claimed to be a specific moderator from the website (by username, not actual name), while commiting a serious felony against a prominent politician... If anything, it looks like a two-for-one swatting, getting the moderator and the site a visit from the feds in addition to Marjorie Taylor Green.