Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation • Hacker News Board

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#101

Post by Alex3917 » Tue, Nov 22, 2011, 5:14 PM UTC

unignorant wrote: post #15

[deleted] wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> Bringing the mind to its unmoved state, a state of no-thought, leads to an indescribable bliss. Do you have evidence to support this claim? I can empty my mind, and it is not blissful. It is nothing. > A wandering mind is more prone to distraction, which can be fatal. Assuming, of course, we are speaking of survival factors. Tradeoffs. Personally, I would want to be distracted by an event that might otherwise prove…

"Do you have evidence to support this claim? I can empty my mind, and it is not blissful. It is nothing."

Just emptying your mind isn't meditation. But there definitely are states of pure bliss if you're doing it properly. For example, this guide to attaining first level enlightenment in ten days talks about some of the bliss states one will experience:

http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/2010/11/going-for-str...

Bliss is actually one of the easiest mind states for a beginning meditation to experience, it shouldn't take more than a half hour or so before you're experiencing at least some level of blissfulness.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#102

Post by Alex3917 » Tue, Nov 22, 2011, 5:19 PM UTC

cmer wrote: post #53

WayneDB wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please read my other comment on this thread with some links to articles that might interest you. - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3264078 Krishnamurti has a lot to say about meditation, I also recommend the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, the Bhagavad Gita (Jack Hawley translation is very thorough, it's subtitled A Walkthrough for Westerners) and lastly The Upanishads (the one with commentary by Eknath Easwaran is exc…

Great information in that other comment of yours. When you say "yoga", is it what ladies do following a DVD or is it some other form of meditation I am not aware of?

Yoga is just the sanskrit word for religion. It's slightly more nuanced than the english word though, because it's recognized that there are many different forms of yoga. For example, all of christianity is essentially one type of yoga.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#103

Post by WayneDB » Tue, Nov 22, 2011, 5:37 PM UTC

WayneDB wrote: post #23

cmer wrote: post #11

I'm getting increasingly interested in meditation, mainly because it seems like it could make me use my brain better. I have no clue where to start though. Anyone has info to share? I'm a total noob to this. Thanks!

Please read my other comment on this thread with some links to articles that might interest you. - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3264078 Krishnamurti has a lot to say about meditation, I also recommend the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, the Bhagavad Gita (Jack Hawley translation is very thorough, it's subtitled A Walkthrough for Westerners) and lastly The Upanishads (the one with commentary by Eknath Easwaran is exc…

One last note - if you decide to explore these books or if you already have and you're using your new golden rules - BEWARE "Nondualism" as described here -

http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j34/stacey-intro.asp

Rationalizing everything down to "this is all an illusion" is harmful. There's way more to it than that, so keep questioning and observing your thoughts.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#104

Post by WayneDB » Tue, Nov 22, 2011, 5:39 PM UTC

cmer wrote: post #11

I'm getting increasingly interested in meditation, mainly because it seems like it could make me use my brain better. I have no clue where to start though. Anyone has info to share? I'm a total noob to this. Thanks!

This other comment was meant for you as well - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3266443

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#105

Post by thesz » Tue, Nov 22, 2011, 5:44 PM UTC

StacyC wrote: post #91

asmala wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need to differentiate between different types of wandering here. I think we can agree that letting our minds roam looking for creative solutions and creative questions is a good think. But it's less useful to have our minds stuck in a loop ("Peanut butter or jam? PB or J?" ad infinitum). Anecdotal evidence based on four years of active meditation would in my case seem to indicate that the jittery loopiness…

Anecdotal evidence based on four years of active meditation would in my case seem to indicate that the jittery loopiness lessens while the capacity for creative wandering increases. This is exactly my experience as well. After about three years of meditation I have also found that I almost never get angry any more - things that used to piss me off or frustrate me just kind of roll off now, and I can really think more…

Simpler explanation could be just hormonal levels changes.

For example, increased testosterone levels correspond to increased stress tolerance. The testosterone levels increase in man and woman up to age of 35-40 years.

So if you just sit and do nothing, your body could work in favor of your mind, if you're young enough. Chances are you were.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#106

Post by chc » Tue, Nov 22, 2011, 5:58 PM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #37

WayneDB wrote: post #17

I learned to meditate by reading and listening to Krishnamurti (among many others). "Meditation is not different from daily life" he says. "It can be done all day." It's exactly like being in the zone that you get into when you code, play video games, run, exercise, etc. You can do it better and without needing a crutch activity by consciously shaping your thought/energy patterns; by constantly focus your mind on pur…

by constantly focus your mind on pure observance and acceptance of all that exists in the current moment I'd like to follow up, please, on what these words mean. Does "acceptance of all that exists in the current moment" mean that demonstrators at Tahrir Square should be accepting of a dictatorial government? I'm curious about this issue, because I lived for several years in a predominantly Buddhist country that was…

I think the idea is more similar to "accept you have a drinking problem." It isn't that you should embrace bad things, but that you should get rid of your mental aversion so you can respond consciously rather than instinctively. It might mean that you react less aggressively than you would have if you realize it's not really a battle you want to fight. It might also mean you respond more proactively if you realize you were ignoring a problem (as with alcohol abuse).

In practice, Buddhists do protest, but they tend to stop before the point where things turn violent (at least from my reading of history). As for why the people in that country put up with the dictatorship: A lot of people, regardless of faith, but up with bad governments for a long time. As a counterexample, though, IIRC monks in Burma were among the most vocal opponents of the junta.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#107

Post by asmala » Tue, Nov 22, 2011, 6:21 PM UTC

thesz wrote: post #105

StacyC wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal evidence based on four years of active meditation would in my case seem to indicate that the jittery loopiness lessens while the capacity for creative wandering increases. This is exactly my experience as well. After about three years of meditation I have also found that I almost never get angry any more - things that used to piss me off or frustrate me just kind of roll off now, and I can really think more…

Simpler explanation could be just hormonal levels changes. For example, increased testosterone levels correspond to increased stress tolerance. The testosterone levels increase in man and woman up to age of 35-40 years. So if you just sit and do nothing, your body could work in favor of your mind, if you're young enough. Chances are you were.

Hmm, interesting. I can definitely see how age-related changes in the endocrine system could cause certain improvements that are similar to the effects of meditation. And being as it is that I'm still 29, that could be a factor.

But if I'm reading you correctly, you seem to imply that all the benefits mentioned could be explained away by age-related hormonal changes. I find that hard to believe based on the strong correlation I experience between active meditation practice and greatly increased mental ability. It is particularly noteworthy that I'm able to observe a clear decline in my capability to stay equanimous and focused whenever I have had longer periods away from practice, which should not be the case if we were dealing with mere age-related endocrine changes.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#108

Post by ypcx » Tue, Nov 22, 2011, 8:39 PM UTC

NeillAlexander wrote: post #84

ypcx wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an iPhone user, but I'm moving to Android (via Galaxy Nexus) very soon, and I think your app will be one of the first ones I install. And it's great to hear that it helps you practicing for over a year, that's just wonderful. Do you have intervals of more days in a row when you don't practice at all? One idea for the app - build a reminder into it - but a random one. One that sounds an alarm at unexpected time of…

It has a reminder, but it's not random. You tell it how many minutes you want to spend meditating each day, and then configure a reminder time. At that time a notification appears in the tool bar if you haven't met your target. You can configure the notification message to make it something that motivates you. You can also configure what time your day starts. If you often meditate just before bed, and don't go to bed…

Awesome! You might consider putting a paid version up, even with the same functionality, for people who want to express gratitude for your work.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#109

Post by thesz » Tue, Nov 22, 2011, 11:34 PM UTC

asmala wrote: post #107

thesz wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simpler explanation could be just hormonal levels changes. For example, increased testosterone levels correspond to increased stress tolerance. The testosterone levels increase in man and woman up to age of 35-40 years. So if you just sit and do nothing, your body could work in favor of your mind, if you're young enough. Chances are you were.

Hmm, interesting. I can definitely see how age-related changes in the endocrine system could cause certain improvements that are similar to the effects of meditation. And being as it is that I'm still 29, that could be a factor. But if I'm reading you correctly, you seem to imply that all the benefits mentioned could be explained away by age-related hormonal changes. I find that hard to believe based on the strong co…

Long time effects like better anger control could be explained by age related endocrine changes.

Short time effects like "staying focused" could or could not be explained by that. I think I have just too little data to explain them at all. All I can do is to speculate.

So I begin speculating.

Let's say that by meditation you try to calm your mind. You lower your stress hormone, cortisol. By doing that you elevate your testosterone level.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5162836_effects-cortisol-testoster...

Does that mechanics explain meditation effects?

Myself, I prefer to walk a forty minutes or longer to boost my mind next day and to lift (pretty heavy - 160+ kg) weights for testosterone.

Both activities are scientifically proven to help mind. Aerobic exercise provides brain boosting: http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=aerobic+exe... Weight lifting increases self control: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/26/health/research/26exer.htm...

I think I should write a presentation about all that.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#110

Post by philwelch » Tue, Nov 22, 2011, 11:51 PM UTC

StacyC wrote: post #93

locopati wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I cannot speak to that link, I can say that Buddhism is an atheistic religion.

If I understand the Buddhist teachings correctly (and I may not) there is no ‘religion’ here in the sense of a theology, afterlife, deity, etc. I guess we can define religion in a number of ways but those characteristics seem to me to be essential elements.

Buddhism is still a non-rational belief system entailing ritual, community, and moral teachings.