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Snowden: US asked British spy agency to stop Guardian publishing revelations

theguardian.com

11–20 of 63 posts

Re: Snowden: US asked British spy agency to stop Guardian publishing revelations

#11
post #8

Two things can be true: - the NSA and/or other three letter agencies are/were out of control - Snowden did enormous damage to US and allies with his indiscriminate distribution of classified information https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/snowden-is-a-traitor-and...

And Lincoln did a lot of damages to the slave-based economy when he championed abolition.

I almost went full Godwin point on this.

Re: Snowden: US asked British spy agency to stop Guardian publishing revelations

#12
post #8

Two things can be true: - the NSA and/or other three letter agencies are/were out of control - Snowden did enormous damage to US and allies with his indiscriminate distribution of classified information https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/snowden-is-a-traitor-and...

I opened your link and saw that bio about the author:

"Fred Fleitz served in 2018 as a Deputy Assistant to President Donald Trump and Chief of Staff to National Security Adviser John Bolton."

That surely seems like a very objective person.

Re: Snowden: US asked British spy agency to stop Guardian publishing revelations

#13

I wish we could have a honest discussions about the pro and cons of the panopticon the internet has become. Not just the usual "Might makes right" glue moral flaws to the person putting questions to power oppossed by fierce "liberty at all cost aka anarchism". It seems pretty obvious that the individual can not be trusted with the power modern technology hands to it, but then again, i find the three letter agencies t…

Unfortunately with the various moral panics going on, folks who lean towards the middle / nuanced balanced thoughts are more afraid and reluctant to put their thoughts out there. It just isn't worth the brain-width or having potential people yell at you for toeing various party lines. The death of questioning is imo one of the more disheartening things in the last 5-10 years.

To your last point, I personally skew towards being deeply suspicious of institutional power being able to have more tools to further leverage the tilt against the individual, but you're also not wrong with individuals being deeply flawed beings too.

Re: Snowden: US asked British spy agency to stop Guardian publishing revelations

#15

I wish we could have a honest discussions about the pro and cons of the panopticon the internet has become. Not just the usual "Might makes right" glue moral flaws to the person putting questions to power oppossed by fierce "liberty at all cost aka anarchism". It seems pretty obvious that the individual can not be trusted with the power modern technology hands to it, but then again, i find the three letter agencies t…

> ... i find the three letter agencies to be entrusted with surveilance of the masses, to be the most useless and untrustworthy stewart of the public imagineable

What makes you think so? For example, the German government prevented a number of terror attacks by monitoring electronic chat and mail exchange.

Re: Snowden: US asked British spy agency to stop Guardian publishing revelations

#16

I wish we could have a honest discussions about the pro and cons of the panopticon the internet has become. Not just the usual "Might makes right" glue moral flaws to the person putting questions to power oppossed by fierce "liberty at all cost aka anarchism". It seems pretty obvious that the individual can not be trusted with the power modern technology hands to it, but then again, i find the three letter agencies t…

It seems pretty obvious that the ~~individual~~ government can not be trusted with the power modern technology hands to it.

Re: Snowden: US asked British spy agency to stop Guardian publishing revelations

#17
post #8

Two things can be true: - the NSA and/or other three letter agencies are/were out of control - Snowden did enormous damage to US and allies with his indiscriminate distribution of classified information https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/snowden-is-a-traitor-and...

No government is my ally.

Re: Snowden: US asked British spy agency to stop Guardian publishing revelations

#18

I wish we could have a honest discussions about the pro and cons of the panopticon the internet has become. Not just the usual "Might makes right" glue moral flaws to the person putting questions to power oppossed by fierce "liberty at all cost aka anarchism". It seems pretty obvious that the individual can not be trusted with the power modern technology hands to it, but then again, i find the three letter agencies t…

> ... i find the three letter agencies to be entrusted with surveilance of the masses, to be the most useless and untrustworthy stewart of the public imagineable What makes you think so? For example, the German government prevented a number of terror attacks by monitoring electronic chat and mail exchange.

The problem is that every democratic government is ultimately based on the idea to give some people enough power so they can govern, but not so much that they cannot be removed from power again.

That balance is not something that would remain uninfluenced by giving the executive the power to surveil the population that brings a government into power.

Re: Snowden: US asked British spy agency to stop Guardian publishing revelations

#19
post #8

Two things can be true: - the NSA and/or other three letter agencies are/were out of control - Snowden did enormous damage to US and allies with his indiscriminate distribution of classified information https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/snowden-is-a-traitor-and...

The US and its allies did that damage to themselves by doing the things detailed in Snowden's leaks. Snowden is not a traitor because he swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution, and he did just that by leaking. If anyone is a traitor, it's the people who gave and followed unconstitutional orders.

Re: Snowden: US asked British spy agency to stop Guardian publishing revelations

#20
post #10
post #8

Two things can be true: - the NSA and/or other three letter agencies are/were out of control - Snowden did enormous damage to US and allies with his indiscriminate distribution of classified information https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/snowden-is-a-traitor-and...

> Snowden did enormous damage to US and allies with his indiscriminate distribution of classified information Sure, in the same way that the police do to organised white-collar criminals when they arrest them and put them in prison.

I am not the parent poster, but Snowden revealed far more information than was necessary to blow the whistle on domestic spying at the NSA.

Just take a look at the list of revelations

https://www.lawfareblog.com/snowden-revelations

Most of the revelations are not at all about domestic spying and instead revealed details about doing what the NSA is chartered to do: international spying.

You can consider it immoral that the NSA monitored the communications of Angela Merkel or the italian ministry of defense, but that isn't whistle-blowing. It's the reason that the NSA exists.

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