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Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#111
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't project violence over the internet You absolutely can, and that's how CloudFlare got into this situation: by posting people's location on the internet they can be made vulnerable to SWATting. > we've shifted away from violence as a means of enforcing social order The intent of KF and similar absolutely is to use violence as a means of enforcing social order, by encouraging stochastic and opportunistic ter…

Quoted post unavailable.

Other forums don't allow posting some kinds of information because they know allowing it means swatting.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#112
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the left also needs a gun rights and ownership culture

Possibly, but as soon as it became a thing it would be raided by the police, as per what happened to the Black Panthers.

Police are also a reason the left need a strong gun culture (I mean we are talking about the same groups of people, police and right wing extremists, terrorist groups, white supremacist gangs etc). BP didn’t go far enough and were hamstrung by lack of support from the left due to racial division within working class and those in poverty

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#113

> Some argue that we should terminate these services to content we find reprehensible so that others can launch attacks to knock it offline. That is the equivalent argument in the physical world that the fire department shouldn't respond to fires in the homes of people who do not possess sufficient moral character. > For instance, when a site that opposed LGBTQ+ rights signed up for a paid version of DDoS mitigation…

I think one easy thing they could do, is stop hosting for forums dedicated to doxxing and harassing people, preferably before they inevitably bully their victims into suicide.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#114
post #43

It's interesting watching the responses roll in here. What CF is laying out here was essentially the standard viewpoint of western society until something like 10 years ago. "I disagree with what you say, but I'll protect your right to say it" is a basic tenant of liberalism. If you find that shocking, you should examine why that is.

Exactly this, for an example, consider Blackstone's ratio[0]: "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." This was not some minority view among scholars and has been hugely influential on our (Western) legal systems for a long time (at least two centuries). [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio

I don’t understand how this can be true and yet our legal system looks the way that it does now. And It used to be even more unfair.. Maybe it’s true for scholars but not elected officials?

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#115

They talk a lot about "human rights" in this post. At what point does someone's right to personal safety and privacy trump another person's right to host whatever they want on the internet?

> At what point does someone's right to personal safety and privacy trump another person's right to host whatever they want on the internet? If you're willing, I'd be interested to hear your own answer to the question you ask. It's an interesting question (though I'm not sure I agree with the premise(s), but I think that's a different conversation). Also interesting would be to hear your answer to the reverse: At wha…

My favorite set of human rights is the UN one: https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma...

The two rights at play would be:

> Article 19: Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers

> Article 12: No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks

> Article 1: All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

In my opinion, it's a relatively clear case, though I reckon sometimes there might be a grey area.

Article 19 says you're free to express your opinions and ideas to others through any media. So you should be able to do so on the internet as well.

Article 12 says that no one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation.

To me, this means your thoughts and ideas you express cannot arbitrarily interfere with others privacy, home, correspondence, or attack their honor or reputation without due cause.

This means that doxxing is not acceptable, hacking and revealing private information you obtained without consent isn't acceptable unless you have due cause (whistleblowing for matters of laws being broken). Harassment is not acceptable either, because it's interference with ones right.

You'd need a court to establish what right you broke, and this is probably what we're lacking today, since a large percentage of the voting population doesn't actually value all human rights equally, I think the courts have been hesitant to enforce them, and so the right to privacy isn't particularly respected, but the right to express opinions or private information and harassment is strongly defended. Since the courts are failing, people are having to take the case to the public spheres.

Finally, Article 1 says that everyone is endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. I included this one because it too clearly rejects harassment and hate. It clearly mandates that people must act in spirit of brotherhood with everyone else. Obviously all behavior that go against that is not supported by the human rights.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#116
post #45

Never thought I'd see the Left trying to weaponize corporations to suppress speech they dislike. Reminds me a LOT of Evangelicals in the 2000s - I know that comparison has been made frequently but that's the last group that made a serious censorship push. I wonder how all of this will end? I support CloudFlare here - they should act as a utility, not as an arbiter of content. This ends poorly and one day will bite th…

Quoted post unavailable.

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https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#117
Cloudflare is doing an admirable and thoughtful job of trying to ethically navigate its anticompetitive monopoly control of internet access.

It is, however, a design flaw that a publicly traded corporation run by some dude (a cool dude) is in the situation of determining who can and cannot communicate on the Internet.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#118
post #85

Never thought I'd see the Left trying to weaponize corporations to suppress speech they dislike. Reminds me a LOT of Evangelicals in the 2000s - I know that comparison has been made frequently but that's the last group that made a serious censorship push. I wonder how all of this will end? I support CloudFlare here - they should act as a utility, not as an arbiter of content. This ends poorly and one day will bite th…

Quoted post unavailable.

The net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. The push to platform everyone you don't like is accelerating radicalization. Instead of just existing as a small number of weirdos on mainstream platforms with millions of users, they are now building their own silos. Forced from internet infrastructure and payment networks, they are forced to build their own platforms and banks. This is happening now. The end game is an entirely segregated society. As the bar of allowed speech continues to zoom past opinions of large numbers of normal people, they too will be forced to move on to the alternative platforms.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8chan had the whole mass shooter thing. Comparing the two websites is very hyperbolic.

KF actively pushes people to commit suicide. People have died because of them.

So does Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and every large platform. There is so much harassment, doxing, and other disturbing behavior on all the platforms.
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